quick visit to Burgundy to taste some 2015's

WINE TALK
21

What sort of price increases are you seeing from 2014 to 2015?

22

0-20%ish maxi, with only a small sample of prices in hand so far.

23

I agree with some written above, but not everything.

I also do not think that tasting at Faiveley is a worthy indication for the style of the vintage, because for 7-8 years they favor a style that is quite accessable in the youth (no matter what the overall vintage style is - but the wines are good!) …

I do think that 2015 is an excellent/outstanding vintage in red. However I disagree that it is - at the top and most serious adresses - a vintage that is “easy to drink early on” … something to enjoy in its youth … just the opposite !

The wines are ripe with fine concentration and sweet tannins, but a lot of tannins, hardly any astringency nor really obvious high acidity, but they were (in my September tastings) neither as open and charming as the 2012s, nor as seductive and sweet as the 2014s …
As usual many will be good to drink several months after bottling, but I predict that the serious wines will close down quite tightly in the 2nd year in the bottle … and then they need time in the cellar … quite a lot of time … even the lower level wines …
So not really a vintage for drinking better Bourgognes and Village wines over the 1st 3-5 years … pileon
(maybe over the 1st months …)
Remember how the better 2012 have shut down in the meantime … and that WAS a vintage with really charming fruit early on!

The best wines will last decades … !

24

Hi Herwig,
If you tasted with Erwan Faiveley, with whom we did an excellent Clos des Cortons vertical last week, was he as enthusiastic then about the 2015 vintage in Gevrey-Chambertin? - of course he may just have been talking about his wines, but he seemed to suggest that the wines of Gevrey suited the vintage, so to speak.

25

Hi Nigel , I tasted with the wine maker and with Bernard Hervet ( now retired from the Domaine ) . I agree with Erwan that his Gevrey wines are excellent , especially the Cazetiers .
At a higher level , the clos de Beze and the special cuvee Rodin are awsome .

26

Are there any vintages in Burgundy where, at the top and most serious addresses, one should drink the wines early on? I cannot remember the last halfway decent vintage (eg, not 2004) where the village level and above wines from the top and most serious addresses do not drink well or even improve for 20-30 years.

27

Howard,
you are absolutely right - but if you follow many threads here, you can often read: “can I already open my 2008s/2009s/2010s …” or “When will the 2011s be mature?” … and some others: “I´m already thru a case of … it´s so delicious…” or “absolutely open for business, this 2013 XY …”

So I just wanted to point to the fact that one should not think the 2015s are “early enjoyable wines”, they are NOT.

The only vintage of the last decade which - in many instances - is really “open and enjoyable” is 2007 - but even here 1) most wines will still improve, some are still too young,
and 2) there is absolutely no hurry, none of the really good wines will “collaps” over the next decade …

28

For me, I have had some 2007s, 2008s and 2011s that are already enjoyable and a few that seem pretty mature. But, even these wines will likely live a long time.

29

I´ve had several 2007s that I would call mature, but no 08 and 11 (except maybe a simple Bourgogne …)

30

Agree that '15s are wines for the long haul. There is a serious chassis of tannin behind all that ripe fruit. I am thinking a long way ahead with my purchases and fully intend to cellar some of these wines for forty years.

31

Thanks Herwig. The '15 reds are seriously good. I reckon they’ll be up with '99 and '05 as one of the great years.

32

I just had a 2011 Chambolle from Guillon. I am not sure I would call it classically mature as it was mostly surprisingly (because of the vintage) ripe fruit flavors, but the fruit is so compelling and I do wonder if the wine will ever gain enough complexity to make it any better than it tastes right now.

33

Nothing contradictory: some vintages drink well early on the fruit… irrespective on whether they will improve… (anyway, they will be better in a different way)…
Many wines from 2006, 7, 8 and 11 drink well now (even 2005, think Ghislaine Bourgone rouge and Chambolle village… not a producer reknowned for early drinking) and one can expect some 2014 to drink well early.
The real question for 2015 is when they will drink well. I find most 1999s are not yet even drinking well (not to mention peaking…) so what you above tell me is that 2015 may require (at least) as much time which brings me well into my 80s… so I will have to restrain my purchasing…or do I misunderstand you?
On the other hand, it seems the 2014s will drink well earlier (although will peak at a lower level) which means I may have to focus more on this cheaper “inferior” vintage (Gilman was unsure which would be best until age 20).

Specific question to Gerhard:
My cellar lies below my piano and, although its passive temperature is good enough, do you think classical music (including 20th century) is having an impact on wine maturing (I have heard plants thrive with Mozart music but this is different…)
Of course, I will try and buy my usual (limited) star allocations as 2017 will be an early drinking vintage… (Fillon told me so…)

34

I don´t know your age, but - not talking about tasting/drinking some 2015s right after bottling in their fruity phase - I think it is a better idea to use vintages like 2014 for the next 10-15 years.
I don´t think the better 2015s will be close to any stage of maturity before 2030/2035+ …

Your piano-cellar:
I´m sure about Mozart, Schubert, Brahms … and even Strawinsky, Bartok - and The Beatles … they all will be for the benefit of the wine … but I´m not so sure about Schönberg and Cage !

Granted, my cellar is two floors below my piano, so I don´t really have 1st hand experience neener

We have a cheese production here in the region where the maturing hall is flooded with Palstrina motets …
the cheese was excellent! [wow.gif]

[cheers.gif]

35

Good as I don’t play Schonberg and Cage…so far. Currently Romeo and Juliet by Prokoviev may challenge Village wines (Gd Cru will take it…)… but always between Bach, Mozart, Debussy Ravel and others… So should be safe…

36

I can’t imagine any living thing, wine included, not being improved by exposure to Prokofiev’s Romeo and Juliet.

37

Not wanting to get political on the main board, but I cannot imagine Trump being improved by Prokofiev’s Romeo and Juliet.

38

I’m a little late to this thread but I thought I’d post as I have a slightly different perspective on 2015 as a red Burgundy vintage.

I’ve visited Burgundy to taste in four of the last five years from barrel and bottle. My conclusion from this year’s visits is to backfill more on 2014s, 2013s and 2012s and to limit 2015s more to the top producers I really trust to make the most of the vintage (as well as buying some lower tier '15s for everyday drinking).

As a generalisation, I prefer the balance of the 2014s and don’t have a problem with the razor acidity of some 2013s (which will, I’m sure, recede with time).

So far, the best one line summary I’ve heard of 2015 reds is that the vintage is somewhere between 2003 and 2009 in character. Re-reading my tasting notes however I did often find more freshness in 2015 reds than I expected.

The winemakers we visited in June had employed a number of strategies to try to ‘cool down’ their wines including picking earlier, acid adjusting (as explained by one winemaker I won’t name, “If you can taste it, I’ve done too much”), stem inclusion (Bruno Clair and Patrice Rion at 30%, and Drouhin, up to 50%, for example, at record high levels for each of them), less extraction, longer time in bottle (I don’t know how this helps, but I heard it being suggested), even some use of Piemonte-styled Botte (again Clair) etc etc.

As I say I trust the top winemakers I like (Fourrier, Rousseau, Clair, Dujac, de Vogue etc), most of whom have been through 2003, and learned a lot, to make some very good, and the occasional great wines, but, overall, to me it’s too much of a sol vintage. Plus, with expected pricing, and 2016 largely a washout, I wouldn’t be able to “fill my boots” anyway …

From what limited tasting I’ve done, some excellent wines notwithstanding, I don’t at this stage expect to see 2015 as a red vintage of the century, of the quality of 2005 or 2010. However, I’ve been wrong many times before …

39

While 2015 is not a vintage where the acidity stands out - fortunately - (except maybe when ajusted, but nobody at the adresses I visited did anything like that), it´s also not hot, overripe and jammy … the tannins are sweet and ripe, but strong, the acidity is decent - and the balance is exceptional.

But who likes acidic Burgundy should still stock up 2013 … the last I want is to push any hype on 2015 …

(… and I never said “vintage of the century” - but IMHO you are wrong again …)

40

Hi Gerhard,

I didn’t say you were hyping 2015 as “vintage of the century” but I’m sure others connected with the industry soon will be. My post was not at all intended as a critique, or even a comment, on your posts in this thread, just my personal views based on the wines I have tasted, trying to give another perspective.

I don’t think I would describe the 2015s I tasted as “hot, overripe and [certainly not] jammy” (and I didn’t in my post if you re-read it). It was a hot vintage that provided a set of challenges to winemakers that some, I’m sure, handled better than others.

As for acid adjustment it may be more widespread in some vintages in Burgundy than you suspect, even at better addresses. Done well it can be hard to detect. A lot of winemakers don’t like to admit to its use.

Best, Howard