I was recently gifted this bottle by someone and was advised to open it young to ‘assess’ what it was all about. I chose Father’s Day as the perfect day to do so - and enjoyed a few small glasses that night and a few more on day 2.
Let me start by saying that I do not drink a lot of Napa Cab these days, and very few current vintages. I was ‘brought up’ believing that these wines, in general, need and greatly benefit from time in bottle. But again, it was suggested to open this now.
First and foremost, this bottle is as big and heavy a bottle as I’ve ever seen - it easily weighted 2-3X my current bottles and was simply huge.
Upon removing the cork, I poured a small glass to evaluate immediately and then let the bottle slow ox throughout the evening, going back a few hours later for a revisit. The first thing noticeable was the color of the wine - a deep crimson and purple. The aromas jumped out of the glass immediately but certainly did not remind me of ‘classic cabs’ - oak, dark coffee, blueberries, and ‘purple’. In the mouth, the oak was quite prominent, the tannins fine and almost non-existent, and their was a ‘buttery’ quality to the wine as well.
I revisited the wine later - and then last night after corking the bottle overnight. The same aromas and flavors persisted the entire time and did not evolve much at all.
My question and one that I have not gotten a great answer for yet - do wines like these ‘evolve’ or simply offer these same flavors/aromas over an extended period of time? And this is not to ‘judge’ wines like these, but if the wine does not truly ‘develop’, why do folks ‘hold these’ other than ‘because they are supposed to’? Again, this is not to judge at all because to each their own - and I truly and honestly believe that. Just trying to understand folks.
For those who have purchased these in the past, do they evolve? Do they develop tertiarty qualities over time?
I don’t have a lot of experience but like the ones I’ve tried. We has 12 To Kalon last week that was drinking very nicely. Smooth with no noticeable bite.
I’ve had a # of older Schrader and some of them are aging very well, at least to my palate. @Steve_Nordhoff and Carol Schrader have shared all of these older bottles with me, and he (and of course, she!) knows the wines extremely well. Maybe he can comment here, as I don’t think she ever posts here, Larry. Anyway, here are two recent-ish examples.
2007 Schrader Cellars Cabernet Sauvignon Beckstoffer To Kalon Vineyard - USA, California, Napa Valley, Oakville (7/1/2022) Tasting w/ The Gang @ Counselor Seiber's Pad (Orange County, CA): We had the good fortune of dining alongside Carol Schrader who has joined us in some of our local dinners before. She is a warm soul, the kind that makes you feel important, seen. I dig that about Carol. And as is usually her custom, when she comes to a dinner, with her comes Schrader. In this evening, she brought the 2007 and the 2013, and we did them side by side. I'm uncertain when she opened them but when they were served she had them each in a decanter so they were seeing air. The 2007 was more irony to me, with dark cherry fruit, some herb buried in the wine and a finish that was long. This is 15 years old and yet I sensed very little aging on the wine, as if it is aging glacially. I wish I could have tasted this again say the next day, when I was just alone with the wine singly but I got a few pours of it and I'll stand by my positive and accurate although brief note. As to the 2013, my core sense and something I told her across the table was that this vintage seemed very primary to me, as if the wine was a barrel sample. Grapey, primary, with black cherry, brewed coffee, bittersweet chocolate (thank you, Brig!), a wine that is stuffed with depth and concentration but I didn't find big-shouldered or out of balance. My final notes on the 2013 say structured, coiled, concentrated, to be long lived. In sum, I tended to prefer the 2007 and the way it showed, more developed yet not oozy or modern Napa, at least that is my recall, and the 2013 being very young and still a long runway ahead to develop. Thank you yet again, Carol!
2004 Schrader Cellars Cabernet Sauvignon CCS Beckstoffer To Kalon Vineyard - USA, California, Napa Valley, Oakville (6/25/2021) Cristal and Fontodi Flaccianello plus Riverain and Schrader (served blind) (Foretti's in Corona Del Mar): Served blind. Carol Schrader brought this to our dinner, with a smile too as she has a deep connection to the wine. I believe she said this was the first CCS made, and it has some of the Las Piedras blended into it. This was richer styled with good acid and lots of blue fruit (which is what I found as well on the 2014 CCS that was poured blind at an event we did a few weeks ago). It also showed an inky coloring around the inside of the glass and a terrific freshness for a wine that has already pushed past 15 years of age. Thomas sure did make some ageworthy wines in his Schrader craft.
Just had the '09 George III and it was fantastic. For me, it was just a notch behind the 2013 Dal Forno Valpo that night; but that is truly splitting hairs.
As for your question, the '09 had not yet developed any tertiary characteristics. Instead, it had smoothed any rough edges and lost baby-fat; such as the ‘buttery’ characteristic you mentioned in your note.
I’ve had many young bottles of Schrader and the main difference with ‘older’ bottles that I have experienced is the calming down of the wine; like a puppy maturing. I have not experienced a whole-sale development of tertiary characteristics.
I’m a fan of these wines as despite their concentrated nature, they are never over the top for my palate. Instead, they are able to remain light enough on their feet so as to be able to reveal the nuance of the individual notes.
My 2 cents, I think young Napa cab is good to taste to get a feel for what the wine could be but it is not the sweet spot for my palate. I like the wine with a decade plus of age to uncoil and knock the tannins down. I just feel the wine needs time sideways to evolve in bottle.
So to answer your question, yes the wines do evolve as they tend to be slightly tannic and maybe even hot when young. I would guess you need 15+ years, or more to get tertiary notes out of well made Napa cab.
I opened an 03’ Spottwoode a few weeks back and it was not tertiary yet; but it was exactly where I would want all the Napa cabs I open to be. Tannins gone, fruit still there to enjoy with secondary notes in play.
Every TRB cab I’ve had has had a signature of fine/polished tannins rather than grippy/chewy, and all have been opened newly released to about 10 years old. I’d agree that most have had little if any discernible difference with age, aside from what Henry mentioned above, at least within that timeframe. The lower priced Mending Wall and Rivers Marie cabs have always been major pleasers at dinner parties with Napa cab lovers who aren’t overly serious about their wines (dozens of MW and a few RM). I have a 4 pack of 2014 Schrader (CCS, LBV, RBS) purchased with aging in mind, and no plans of opening one anytime soon.
This! Although for me I would hope to have some tannin left after 10 to 15 years. I’m old but the standard for great cabs and even Bordeaux iirc always was drink 1 or 2 a year or three after bottling then come back to them after 10 or 20 years to see how they evolved. I guess things have changed?
Thanks for all of the feedback, my friends. Again, these are not wines and I drink very often and therefore I’m just trying to get a handle on them.
The thing about this wine is that it did not have a tremendous amount of baby fat to speak up. I’m used to cabs that have rough edges that I know will settle down over time, but this really didn’t.
Thanks again. I love this board and all of its participants!
I do think these wines take a long time to come around. I have been lucky enough to drink a lot of Schrader‘s over the years. Are used to think they needed to be held 10 years but based on a few recent bottlings, I think may be closer to 20 is even better.
For sheer power and polish, drinking them young is acceptable too, but I prefer the complexity and smoothness that comes from aging.
The 2007 T6 we had last night was a big wine. 15 years old, a goliath of flavor. A bit much for me, but I maintain and succumb to a fragile palate these days, which you already know! The one thing I did remark to you about was the apricot pit note on the aromatic. And the darkness of that wine.
I don’t have much exp with Schrader, only 2 bottles opened and both on the younger side. I guess it makes sense to open this early if you want to experience what the average wine drinker loves about it. BUT, IMO what the “ave” drinker loves about these wines is the rich, opulent up-front fruit; the creamy vanilla, chocolate, and toasty spices from the oak. I don’t begrudge anyone for enjoying that, I can certainly enjoy that for what it is, I just also have high hopes for what it could evolve into 10+ years in the future.
To me, and it seems a lot of board drinkers also, the elements of these wines are initially fighting with each other in a discordant way. One could think they’re in balance, but only because they’re all turned up to eleven! I call it integrating or resolving but that doesn’t happen for about 7 yrs (for my palate). The tannins need to ease, the oakyness needs to fade.
As for developing tertiary aging characteristics, last year I opened a 2001 Shafer HSS that finally for the first time showed something beyond a 10yr old Cab, getting into the leather, tobacco, etc. I bring this up as a comparison because it’s a massively made wine like the Schraders I’ve had. I agree with Jeff, Scott and Steve that this kind of wine won’t really show many tertiary characteristics until 15-20+ yrs of age.