So I jumped into the Burgundy pool this past Summer after venturing to the region and spending a week in this amazing area. My question might seem simple and repetitive, but I am confused as to why pricing for a select climat ranges from $200 to upwards of $1,000 per bottle.
For example take the Malconsort climat, of which I tasted from Bichot this past summer. Most WS prices have this wine in the $200 range per bottle, however if you look at another producer of this climat Dujac, or Cathiard it is close to $1,000 per bottle.
If it is the same climat, why is there such as price fluctuation?
For most Burgundy drinkers, producer trumps terroir. So the premiums are usually driven more by the producer name on the label.
Also, just because it’s the same vineyard doesn’t mean the parcels are equal, not only in size which can affect quantities drastically, but there’s also vastly different vineyard management practices as well (see this thread stated by William Kelley a while back about Perrieres. Winemaking and cellar practices varies widely as well.
a very astute question, imo. it wasn’t always this way. in fact, it was the opposite where the terroir (the brand name of the vineyard) mattered most.
I highly recommend Burgundy: The Country, the Wines, the People, by Eunice Fried. she does a great job of telling the story about this transition to Producer-over-Terroir and how the late/great Becky Wasserman was at the vanguard of this movement. the region existed and was famous for several hundred years, and then tipped in a new direction in the 70s and 80s. pretty cool!
cant really add on much more but this is it. and of course the marquee producers have an extremely high demand over the years and lower supply based upon weather, etc…
some parcels are classified as lieu dit village while other parts of the same parcel are 1er.
some areas are so large or have so many producers (clos vougeot) that not every bottle will be of the same quality or price.
The example you cite is a pretty extreme one in Burgundy but in my opinion justified. Bichot Clos Frantin Malconsorts is not a great wine on the level produced by the others based on my few experiences. This is also a perfect example of the Burgundy mantra “producer, producer, producer”.
There are plenty of comps in other regions as well. Look at MacDonald To-Kalon vs. Mondavi To-Kalon. 3x the price at retail. Producer matters.
I think the posters before have covered the answers very well. One thing I would add is that Burgundy Domaines have historically been and mostly still are small family run Domaines compared to Bordeaux or places like Napa. So a general change or a change in ownership can often result in drastic differences in quality and style. The difference between old school and new school Faiveley is drastic, as is the difference between pre and post 1996 Pousse d’Or.
Also, some of the most esteemed terroirs are often so esteemed because great (and famous) winemakers have been making wines there for years. For example, Cros Parantoux is hideously expensive because it’s only made by Rouget and Meo, and Meo was previously made by Jayer. I believe before Jayer replanted vines on it, Cros Parantoux was used to grow artichokes, so I’d say producer has a lot to do with the terroir
If I can hop on with a question of my own, If someone was looking to start a burgundy collection today and had a budget of 2-400 a bottle for higher end bottles, How would you go about building that out?
Dan … I would start drinking a variety of wines from the various communes and decide which village speaks to you most. Some wise people – like me – decide they like more red fruited, airy and succulent wines. So Chambolle or Volnay appeals to them. Others like more meaty, darker fruited, earthy wines. So Gevrey or Nuits St George may be more in their wheelhouse.
First figure out the style/village you like best. Then depending on your budget, build around classic producers in that village and sprinkle in some Young Turks who are taking over well positioned sites from their famililes and might provide some value.
I would also recommend back filling from less buzzy older vintages (06, 08, 13, 18) as much as possible given the stratospheric rise in prices for new releases. You can get some bottle age and adjust your sense of whether you like younger, middle or older aged wines.
And if I were starting out, I would focus on reliable village-level wines in “easy” vintages from some blue chip producers in their respective communes – reds like Dujac Morey St Denis, Cathiard Vosne Romanee, Bachelet Gevrey Chambertin and Barthod Chambolle Musigny and whites like Lamy St. Aubin, Jacques Carillon Puligny Montrachet and PYCM Chassagne.
Clos St. Jacques is the most interesting one, because the 5 producers (Bruno Clair) all have vertical slices of the vineyard, so it’s as close to a test of winemaking as you can get. I’ve done a blind CsJ tasting several times, and both times picking out the producers wasn’t especially difficult. As far as the price gaps, I dunno - I’ve had some pretty great Fourrier and Rousseau CsJ.
I would offer a slightly different suggestion that Matthew. I would try village wines from higher end producers and see what you like. Do you like stems? Do you like more or less concentration? Do you like more extracted styles? Are you looking for earlier drinkability and warmer vintages? What’s your tolerance for oak? Etc. etc. Terroir is important, but within Gevrey you have producers who make wines of very different styles - Rousseau and Fourrier are arguably two of the best producers but their wines aren’t similar at all (and I wouldn’t describe them as earthy or meaty).
I think the producers Matthew suggested are very good and will give you a great overview of different styles. But I also think you might discover that if you like the Dujac, you like Dujac’s style, not necessarily Morey St. Denis.
Producer, vintage, and rarity determine the price of a wine in a particular climat. That’s why Camus grand cru wines are given away even in great years—great climat, sucky producer.
This would be a good thread topic on its own, something like “Worthy Grand Cru Burgs under $400 in Today’s Crazy Market”, to dovetail with the one a couple of years back on best 1er crus under $200.
Longtime lurker here so don’t roast me too hard - Anyway, I would agree with this. There are undoubtedly common points between village wines from different producers, but I often find things like fruit profile e.g. red vs black fruit are driven much more by producer and vintage than they are by village. I have had plenty of Chambolle wines with darker fruit and many Gevrey wines with red fruit. In fact, I would be inclined to argue that Gevrey is often a red fruited village and Chambolle is often a black fruited village based on my experience. Fourrier, Mortet, and Rousseau all speak to me as being more on the red fruit spectrum and In my limited experience with Roumier, his Les Cras 15 is a darker fruited wine, but 17 is much more red fruit driven wine. Ghislaine Barthod is also often on the darker fruit spectrum. Finally, producer aside 2018 wines seems to be more of a darker fruited vintage, while 2017 tends to be more of a red fruited vintage. I often feel like there is this misnomer where red fruit = lighter more delicate and black fruit = fuller bodied and meatier, but you can have a light ethereal black fruited wine and a savory full bodied red fruited wine (17/19 Denis Mortet, Mes Cinq Terroirs as an example of the latter).
Anyway, this is a longwinded way of saying that producer is generally a better guide for personal preference than terroir. Once you have identified the producers you like at the village level you can step up to their more prestigious terroirs. Most of my experience is with Gevrey and Chambolle so I will only make recs for those two communes. In Gevrey I would start with Joseph Drouhin, Faively, Denis Bachelet, Domaine Fourrier, and Denis Mortet. In Chambolle I would start with Joseph Drouhin, Faively, Ghislaine Barthod, Domaine Felettig, and De Vogue. (If you wanna splurge obviously Rousseau for Gevrey and Roumier / Mugnier for Chambolle but you are looking at $4-700 for their village level on WS so unless you know a nice shop owner that will share their allocation these producers may be out of budget for village level bottlings).
– decide they like more red fruited, airy and succulent wines. So Chambolle or Volnay appeals to them. Others like more meaty, darker fruited, earthy wines. So Gevrey or Nuits St George may be more in their wheelhouse.
- Anyway, I would agree with this. There are undoubtedly common points between village wines from different producers, but I often find things like fruit profile e.g. red vs black fruit are driven much more by producer and vintage than they are by village. I have had plenty of Chambolle wines with darker fruit and many Gevrey wines with red fruit. In fact, I would be inclined to argue that Gevrey is often a red fruited village and Chambolle is often a black fruited village based on my experience. Fourrier, Mortet, and Rousseau all speak to me as being more on the red fruit spectrum and In my limited experience with Roumier, his Les Cras 15 is a darker fruited wine, but 17 is much more red fruit driven wine. Ghislaine Barthod is also often on the darker fruit spectrum. Finally, producer aside 2018 wines seems to be more of a darker fruited vintage, while 2017 tends to be more of a red fruited vintage. I often feel like there is this misnomer where red fruit = lighter more delicate and black fruit = fuller bodied and meatier, but you can have a light ethereal black fruited wine and a savory full bodied red fruited wine (17/19 Denis Mortet, Mes Cinq Terroirs as an example of the latter).