Question..2005 Bizot Vosne-Romanee VV

bradkaplan · February 2, 2022, 7:37pm

I’ve still got a few - Wine Market Journal shows an auction price of $1,699! I’d be a happy seller at a third of that.

ybarselah · February 2, 2022, 8:08pm

can someone please explain these to me. i’ve had a bunch over the years and they weren’t good at all. they were merely famous appellation for really cheap and got some decent BH scores. yes, other domaines have gone on a similar price trajectory such as truchot and engel - but those were actually good/very good wines, sometimes even great. what exactly happened with bizot and when?

The wines really took off in quality with the 2015 vintage for me, since then Jean-Yves has been on a roll.

I think right now in Asia you have quite a few people who really learnt about Burgundy through the lens of DRC and Leroy. And there are not really many producers in Burgundy that make wines that deliver flavors and aromas in that register. Bizot is one that clearly does, and indeed flavors and aromas that can be even more dramatic and head-turning.

Bizot was already expensive before, partly because of how it was distributed, but today this is clearly a market-driven phenomenon and I’d posit that this is the cause.

fascinating! all makes sense now. thank you!

b_castner · February 2, 2022, 9:40pm

Thanks for the information, most appreciated

Will_F · February 3, 2022, 2:08pm

Probably worth about double that $1,699 from the recent bottles I have seen sold…

bradkaplan · February 3, 2022, 3:11pm

(I know this should go on Commerce Corner… but, ummm, if anyone knows a buyer, DM me!)

Keith_Levenberg · February 3, 2022, 4:17pm

Bizot took a rather unusual trajectory to this point. It started out as a darling of the natural wine scene on account of their sans-sulfur regime and was for a long time pricier, but not extremely so, relative to the the same appellations from other estates. I have no idea what happened to make them 4-digit trophy wines for people who don’t care about the natural wine scene but I was today years old when I found out.

CFu · February 3, 2022, 4:43pm

same people propelling Arnoux Nuits village to $1k a btl and latricieres chambertin to 3.5k

Will_F · February 3, 2022, 4:44pm

Makes a little more sense for Bizot based on how much wine he makes. Arnoux village wine until about 6 months ago was easy to get for under $100 a bottle!

David_K2 · February 3, 2022, 4:49pm

Something seems not entirely on the level for wines like Bizot, Arnoux-Lachaux, that go to stratospheric prices seemingly overnight.

RyanC · February 3, 2022, 4:54pm

Burgundy has gone full cult. I thought producers like Cathiard and Mugnier were trendy but apparently not so much—now you have four-digit village wines from Arnoux and Bizot (and Leroy and d’Auvenay) that are multiples more expensive than Dujac GCs?! I guess just a simple combo of tiny production and lots of $$$ out there.

CFu · February 3, 2022, 4:54pm

no doubt. The arnoux leap happened overnight. I remember when 2018 came out and I was getting it offered left and right. I’d say “asia be wildin” but I know people in the US paying the new pricing too.

CFu · February 3, 2022, 4:55pm

Bizot took a rather unusual trajectory to this point. It started out as a darling of the natural wine scene on account of their sans-sulfur regime and was for a long time pricier, but not extremely so, relative to the the same appellations from other estates. I have no idea what happened to make them 4-digit trophy wines for people who don’t care about the natural wine scene but I was today years old when I found out.

same people propelling Arnoux Nuits village to $1k a btl and latricieres chambertin to 3.5k

Burgundy has gone full cult. I thought producers like Cathiard and Mugnier were trendy but apparently not so much—now you have four-digit village wines from Arnoux and Bizot (and Leroy and d’Auvenay) that are multiples more expensive than Dujac GCs?! I guess just a simple combo of tiny production and lots of $$$ out there.

production on Arnoux isn’t that small though.

A_Gillette · February 3, 2022, 4:56pm

Arnoux '19 has never been below $100. I suppose it would have been possible to find the '18 for less than $100, but it would not have been easy to get and there would not have been a whole lot of it. Before that, I agree that the wines were relatively easy to find at those prices. But while I love the wines from '15, '16 and '17, I think that the last two vintages where the prices have skyrocketed are really sort of different things altogether. That doesn’t mean I would pay $1000 for the village wines, but there is a fairly straightforward explanation for the pricing jump in the last two years.

A_Gillette · February 3, 2022, 5:00pm

Now yields on the grand crus are about 13 hl/ha. On the village wines, its about 19 hl/ha. So Leroy level. Far below DRC.

Greg_K · February 3, 2022, 5:03pm

I think there are differences here; Arnoux has been quite a bit about aggressive marketing and publicity - Charles is very visible, wins awards, goes to galas, etc. Whereas I wouldn’t recognize Jean-Yves if he walked past me in Beaune holding a bottle of Bizot. It’s true both are buzzy, but sometimes the market picks wines it loves for various reasons; Ente is another great example - small production for unhallowed terroir with wines that were never particularly beloved by critics. Also, the grand cru productions on the Arnoux wines are not large - I suspect we get somewhat lulled into a sense of quantity by DRC given how big their monopoles are.

Also, I don’t remotely mean this as an indictment of Charles - he makes great wines and, frankly, this trail has been blazed far more aggressively by predecessors like Louis-Michel (NFTs anyone?).

Will_F · February 3, 2022, 5:05pm

same people propelling Arnoux Nuits village to $1k a btl and latricieres chambertin to 3.5k

Makes a little more sense for Bizot based on how much wine he makes. Arnoux village wine until about 6 months ago was easy to get for under $100 a bottle!

Arnoux '19 has never been below $100. I suppose it would have been possible to find the '18 for less than $100, but it would not have been easy to get and there would not have been a whole lot of it. Before that, I agree that the wines were relatively easy to find at those prices. But while I love the wines from '15, '16 and '17, I think that the last two vintages where the prices have skyrocketed are really sort of different things altogether. That doesn’t mean I would pay $1000 for the village wines, but there is a fairly straightforward explanation for the pricing jump in the last two years.

I bought 6 cases of 2018 Arnoux village wine for between 54-75 Euros from two retailers in late 2020/early 2021. I believe they offered Latricieres at the same time and it was just over 300 euros a btl.

CFu · February 3, 2022, 5:10pm

Makes a little more sense for Bizot based on how much wine he makes. Arnoux village wine until about 6 months ago was easy to get for under $100 a bottle!

Arnoux '19 has never been below $100. I suppose it would have been possible to find the '18 for less than $100, but it would not have been easy to get and there would not have been a whole lot of it. Before that, I agree that the wines were relatively easy to find at those prices. But while I love the wines from '15, '16 and '17, I think that the last two vintages where the prices have skyrocketed are really sort of different things altogether. That doesn’t mean I would pay $1000 for the village wines, but there is a fairly straightforward explanation for the pricing jump in the last two years.

I bought 6 cases of 2018 Arnoux village wine for between 54-75 Euros from two retailers in late 2020/early 2021. I believe they offered Latricieres at the same time and it was just over 300 euros a btl.

Going through my emails

lieu dit and non lieu dit village wines from arnoux in 2018 were sub 100 stateside (65-70 for NSG and almost 100 for chambolle/vosne). But that was on release - late 2020. Latricieres was in the 300 range, clos vougeot was sub 300. I remember the local text group I’m in and we were all discussing how 18 reignot jumped in price to $850+ from the 17. I got offered an assortment of 18 arnoux from a fair number of retailers on the west coast. I tasted through the 18s across the pond and thought they were nice wines so grabbed some, but not at the number I should have apparently LOL.

A_Gillette · February 3, 2022, 5:10pm

Makes a little more sense for Bizot based on how much wine he makes. Arnoux village wine until about 6 months ago was easy to get for under $100 a bottle!

Arnoux '19 has never been below $100. I suppose it would have been possible to find the '18 for less than $100, but it would not have been easy to get and there would not have been a whole lot of it. Before that, I agree that the wines were relatively easy to find at those prices. But while I love the wines from '15, '16 and '17, I think that the last two vintages where the prices have skyrocketed are really sort of different things altogether. That doesn’t mean I would pay $1000 for the village wines, but there is a fairly straightforward explanation for the pricing jump in the last two years.

I bought 6 cases of 2018 Arnoux village wine for between 54-75 Euros from two retailers in late 2020/early 2021. I believe they offered Latricieres at the same time and it was just over 300 euros a btl.

Nuits, or vosne/chambolle? The former is a lot less expensive, but still that is an incredible price. I think C&B sold them for 390 pounds a six pack, and there weren’t a lot to go around.

Will_F · February 3, 2022, 5:12pm

Bizot took a rather unusual trajectory to this point. It started out as a darling of the natural wine scene on account of their sans-sulfur regime and was for a long time pricier, but not extremely so, relative to the the same appellations from other estates. I have no idea what happened to make them 4-digit trophy wines for people who don’t care about the natural wine scene but I was today years old when I found out.

same people propelling Arnoux Nuits village to $1k a btl and latricieres chambertin to 3.5k

I think there are differences here; Arnoux has been quite a bit about aggressive marketing and publicity - Charles is very visible, wins awards, goes to galas, etc. Whereas I wouldn’t recognize Jean-Yves if he walked past me in Beaune holding a bottle of Bizot. It’s true both are buzzy, but sometimes the market picks wines it loves for various reasons; Ente is another great example - small production for unhallowed terroir with wines that were never particularly beloved by critics. Also, the grand cru productions on the Arnoux wines are not large - I suspect we get somewhat lulled into a sense of quantity by DRC given how big their monopoles are.

Also, I don’t remotely mean this as an indictment of Charles - he makes great wines and, frankly, this trail has been blazed far more aggressively by predecessors like Louis-Michel (NFTs anyone?).

Couldn’t agree more, but the jump in price the last 6 months has been well after the 18s were released and reviewed. Using different avenues to sell his wines has made them much more expensive and my guess is he is getting more money from Corney and Crurated than he did for previous vintages through the en premier system of distribution.

Will_F · February 3, 2022, 5:13pm

Arnoux '19 has never been below $100. I suppose it would have been possible to find the '18 for less than $100, but it would not have been easy to get and there would not have been a whole lot of it. Before that, I agree that the wines were relatively easy to find at those prices. But while I love the wines from '15, '16 and '17, I think that the last two vintages where the prices have skyrocketed are really sort of different things altogether. That doesn’t mean I would pay $1000 for the village wines, but there is a fairly straightforward explanation for the pricing jump in the last two years.

I bought 6 cases of 2018 Arnoux village wine for between 54-75 Euros from two retailers in late 2020/early 2021. I believe they offered Latricieres at the same time and it was just over 300 euros a btl.

Nuits, or vosne/chambolle? The former is a lot less expensive, but still that is an incredible price. I think C&B sold them for 390 pounds a six pack, and there weren’t a lot to go around.

Nuits, Vosne, and Chambolle.