Q: What # means in German Riesling

Can someone explain to me what different numbered lots of a particular German Riesling bottling mean?

Let’s say it’s 2015 Weingut Willi Schaefer Graacher Domprobst Riesling Auslese #11. What makes it different from #4?

Longer elevage? Different section of the vineyard? Other variables?

And how do you find this out as consumer standing in a store?

TIA

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Would like to know as well. I thought it was the barrel number, but can’t remember where I heard that.

This is a good primer on AP #s from Mosel Fine Wines:

As you will read it is a slightly different meaning for every producer.

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It typically refers to the 3rd and 4th digits from the right in the German AP number. AP is short for Amtliche Prüfungsnummer, which is an official ID number under the German wine regulations.

Different wines have different AP numbers even if they are from the same site. Here Weingut Willie Schaefer typically makes more than one Auslese from the Domprobst vineyard (hillside) in the town of Graach.

Wines with different AP numbers can be arbitrarily different. Micro site, botrytis, pick time, single cask or mix of casks, etc.

If you Google, you can find the typical differences between the Schaefer Auslesen. The non-auction Auslesen have consistently used the #11 and #14 designations since 2009 IIRC.

The way to find this out in the store is to use the internet on your smart phone. There may be some information available on the website or in a Mosel Fine Wine issue.

What it means - beyond the basic bureaucratic elements - depends on producer.

And I thought Burgundy was a minefield!

I know how to use my smart phone in a wine store, but it would be helpful if vintners provided that differentiation information on the label — as Ridge or Calera explains tech specs.

But I suppose it’s too much hassle/time/work/cost.

It’s not that many producers where people get all bothered as to whether they bought the “right” AP number.

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Willi Schafer and Falkenstein are probably the two people pay most attention to when the wines comes in

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As you know, Hofgut Falkenstein has added the parcel/cask nicknames on the label—e.g., AP 8 is Gisela.

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The cask/parcel names on the labels have helped significantly in the recent years. Still see some retailers list some of the wines with neither the AP # or the cask/parcel name. Frustrating, but usually a quick call to the store solves things

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One thing I’d add as people try to decipher AP numbers is that higher absolutely does not mean better - or worse. I’ve decided that AP numbers, from an overall quality perspective, are random. With different assignment algorithms for every producer.

Definitely a lot of fun to figure this stuff out if you are pleased by research. And once in a while you get a prize :laughing:.

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Very important to note. It’s basically a serial number for the wines to differentiate them The numbers themselves have no numerical representation in terms of indicating quality, or anything else

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I’d say that’s generally true but as we both know, it doesn’t mean when producers are somewhat consistent about how they use AP numbers yea to year (only a very few still), there are discernible differences between wines year to year. For example, Schaefer since 2009 and Falkenstein since 2015(?).

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That consistency of AP# is so limited that it’s really the exception that proves the rule.

I’ve never heard anyone suggest anything of the sort.

There is no rule of consistency so an alleged exception logically can’t prove there is.

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Who said anything had to be logical. :rofl:

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