Produttori vs. Sottimano

WINE TALK
21

Oops,another orifice emerges… [wink.gif]
Well said,Bad Bob.
Anybody who refers to Produttori as rustic dirty wines or comparable in any fashion to Budweiser is… well…certainly unique [highfive.gif]

22

Why are these two sets of wines a relevant comparison? Are the approaches to wine making comparable? Sottimano uses barrique - at least used to. Does Produttori? I drink much more Produttori than I do of Andrea’s wines, and tend to prefer them. But I would not have come up with an either/or comparison of these two.

23

I agree with the poll findings, but I think the margin of victory is tied to the fact that Sottimano’s wines are very backward and take much longer to become accessible. If you buy and try within a few years of release, you won’t be wowed and that may be why so many have lost interest.

24

Steve, my poll was in response to some commentary by Stuart in another thread, wherein he was critical of Produttori’s wines and comparatively impressed with Sottimano’s (my paraphrase of the content in numerous posts). I posted the poll because I was curious if there were many Board members who felt the same way as Stuart.

I believe Ken V once referred to the Produttori as possibly the best-run cooperative in the world - I know I’ve been a fan for years, so I don’t claim to be objective here, although at the end of the day I’m only looking to finish what I poured in my glass, and as you know from our mutual drinking experiences, I am far more agnostic about the whole Traditional-Modernist debate in Piemonte than many (as witnessed by the numerous bottles of Scavino, Clerico, Altare and other like producers that I own).

Brian, I don’t buy the aging argument at all - about the only vintage the Produttori has released in the last 15 years that is drinking well right now is the 2000 - stuff like the 99’s, 96’s and 2001 are all too young to really appreciate (unless you don’t want or need any secondary nuances in the wine). Even their Normales from vintages like 2004 and 2006 are better left for a future time, so I definitely don’t think that Sottimano gets any penalty here because the wines don’t show all that well when young.

25

Bob,
thanks - that’s what I get for not paying attention. I opened a 99 Cotta this evening after reading this thread, and it is really show well. Oak has integrated, tannins are still quite vivid, but are increasingly integrated. The wine is clean, well-structured, and I can see the influence of Burgundy in the smoothness on the back. But it’s Nebbiolo, to be sure. I agree with Ken V. on Produttori. According to Cellar Tracker, it makes up 3.8% of my cellar. I’ve had the wines back to the early 70s. Some quite beautiful bottles.

26

Bob, I wasn’t talking about optimal drinking windows, I was talking about relative accessibility. Open an 07 or 08 of each (like someone trying both wines for the first time to decide whether they like the style and are willing to buy and lay down some bottles for the future). There is no comparison. That’s why folks get turned off “trying to like” Sottimano.

27

Has Ken been to any of the meticulously run coop wineries in Alto Adige? German efficiency and cleanliness with fabulous mountain vineyards.

28

Kaltern?

29

Opened a 2001 Montestefano tonight. Really off and heat damaged. Strange celery notes all over it. Luckily I had a 2004 G. Cortese Rabaja as a back up. It was trying to be great, but the entrees arrived and we could wait no longer. Given another hour of air it would have been great. So hold the Cortese or give it some air. But I would still take Produttori over Sottimano. And I have had some great wines from Sottimano.

30

We visited Produttori in March 2012. We spend a couple of hours with their cellar manager and Aldo. He explained the processes in place currently ( cannot recall if he described the date changes occurred). It looks like a very slick operation. The whole cellar is spotlessly clean. You could eat off the floor. They have many new stainless steel vats installed. I have a few photos of there cellar ( I don’t know how to upload them but can send them if you like).

I have tasted the few Produttori from '90, '96, and '97. FWIW, when compared to recent releases such as 2007 and 2008 the recent vintages have greater finesse and less rusticity.

I haven’t tasted any Sottimano as yet but looking forward to do so.

31

Something which has not been mentioned yet in connection with this comparison is that Produttori have access to the very top Barbaresco vineyards, which is not the case for Sottimano. If I am not mistaken, vineyards like Cotta’ and Curra’ are known mostly because of Sottimano.
Does anybody with more experience than me wish to comment on this?

32

Depending on how/where you rank the vineyards the Produttori has equal to vastly superior vineyards. To me they have much better sites - Rabaja, Asili, Ovello. Sottimano has most of their holdings over toward Neive. But they are not a some great disadvantage.

http://www.sottimano.it/en/wines

33

The simple fact is that the Produttori have been making exceptional wines,especially their Riservas, for over 40 years,many of them that are well stored are still superb.FWIW,Sottimano has no history comparable to this…so anyone throwing around words like rustic,poor to middle wines needs to allow the juice to enter and be appreciated through a more appropriate orifice…:wink: …and yet,to each his own.

34

I have visited and bought both. Brought them back when we sold our place in France.

All are 1998 to 2006 vintage. Have just started to drink the 1998’s.

At this point, I find them to be of similar quality…and fairly high quality at that.

No idea what the next decade will reveal.

35

Ran across this interview with Aldo Vacca and thought some might be interested.

http://www.rarewineco.com/articles/aldo-vacca-barbaresco-enogea-interview/

37

Really enjoyed that article/interview with Aldo, Gary - interesting discussion on the “history” of Barolo & Barbaresco, and some interesting commentary on Gaja. Thanks for the link [cheers.gif] .

38

I have asked many producers about Gaja. I always get a very guarded answer. And almost always positive. No matter their position on his wines and style they are always thankfull for the attention he has created for the area.

39

Well, I’d say that the only comparability between the Produttori and Sottimano is that Aldo and Andrea would be equally embarrassed to be pitted in a one on one forum. The Produttori is amazing, a legacy institution that never fell in love with itself. Sottimano is by comparison a start-up. I’ve caught glimpses of greatness in some of Andrea’s wines. In wine, sublime takes time. Time not just for the maturation of the wine, but also for the maturation of the enterprise. I don’t feel that Sottimano’s aspirations are wrong. Bear in mind that he cannot just inject his product in monkeys and compute the results ( although reviewers would have us think otherwise).

40

[scratch.gif]

FWIW, I find direct comparisons of producers pointless…in any context. The “vs.” is a real turnoff. They all should be judged on their “merits”, with all opinions welcome.

41

I echo that sentiment whole heartedly, Stuart.
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