Producers you are currently boycotting?

[Joe_B]

I am actually enjoying this thread more everyday. The latest couple posts or pages because i am learning something i didnt know anything about. Smoke taint. Would i buy an anthill pinot noir. Sure would but it wouldnt be their 2008.

Not so interesting to me right now is the fact that a few or more people are put off because of anthills disclosure or non disclosure. Pfft. What is of interest is that i am certain some of these people are put off because smoke taint does not reflect well on a wine or this wine yet i read tn’s where lead pencil, pencil shavings, etc or far worse adjectives or describers such as from pagau drinkers like farm animal sweat, or locker room jock strap on the nose and or palate seem acceptable. Here are some wines id definatly not buy. Maybe even boycot them.

Wine drinkers are funny people some times.

[Z_A_c_s_a_n]

@Thomas Keim

You want a real reason to boycott a winery?

Sig made it very clear who that company was that had turned them in, and made me swear that I would never purchase a bottle of wine from this company ever - and tell the story to whomever would listen. I’ve pulled bottles of wine out of people’s hands in grocery stores and told them this story. And I’m telling it again. The firm I am talking about was equally famous as a knife producer in Germany.

I did want to clarify something before we drift any further off topic. After a quick bit of researching, it appears that Henke**ll** the producer of inexpensive German Sekt (sparkling wine) does not share its lineage with J. A. Hen**ckels** the Soligen knifemaker, nor Henke**l** the German chemical giant.

Henkell & Co. Sektkellerei

Zwilling J. A. Henckels

Henkel

Very easy to confuse the spellings and I’ve seen Henkell (the wine company - if indeed the same company) also spelled as Henkel in a document produced by the US Congress (Elimination of German resources of war v.1-9) wherein they reference Dutch Nazi collaborator Friedrich H. Fentener van Vlissingen and his daughter’s marriage and their ties to “the Henkel family, prominient German wine producers.” Not sure if there is another Henkel(l) in the wine business, but either way, it would appear they are unrelated to the Henckels company that produces knives.

I did find it interesting to note how the rise of the Third Reich helped revive the fortunes of Soligen. The “City of Blades” has long been considered one of the four greatest (some say THE greatest in terms of quality) historical sword centers of Europe. Hitler boosted their economy when he borrowed a page from the King Frederick William IV playbook, by choosing uniform designs that prominently featured dress edged weapons; most especially the dress dagger. Eickhorn was the single largest producer of military edged dress weapons during the rise of the Third Reich.

This is as far down the German rabbit hole as I care to go (for now).

Now on to more important things, like arguing about smoke taint and discussing other assorted crappy winery experiences…

[J_Diven]

@Lewis Dawson

@Robert.Fleming

I have no horse in the Anthill race, and no independent knowledge of whether he got it right, but here’s what the Prince of Pinot had to say:

Anderson Valley wineries had three choices in 2008 in dealing with grapes exposed to wildfire smoke. Some chose to release no Pinot Noirs or to declassify the wine and sell it off in bulk. Producers such as Copain (bottled no 2008 Anderson Valley Pinot Noirs), Londer (declassified 80% of production), and Littorai followed this tack (Ted Lemon chose to incorporate his Anderson Valley grapes in a rosé and in a Les Larmes cuvée that was vinified in a simple fashion to provide early drinkability and priced significantly less than the usual Littorai bottlings). Others employed various smoke taint reduction techniques such as carbon or resin filtration and reverse osmosis both of which tend to reduce the smoke taint but can strip the wine of its character. There is no current technology that can completely remove smoke taint. Producers who chose this tack included Breggo and Elke. Still others, such as Anthill Farms and LIOCO, who combined their vineyards into an Anderson Valley bottling, and Black Kite, simply crafted the wine in the usual manner, attempting to minimize skin contact, and acknowledging that the smoke influence was part of the vintage terroir.

Source: Anderson Noir Valley Pinot Festival: After the Smoke Clears | The PinotFile: Volume 8, Issue 16

A good find, Bob, but that is incorrect regarding Copain, who did release 2008 Anderson Valley pinot noir, appellation blend not single vineyard designated (same as Anthill). The Copain did not exhibit smoke, but did suffer from terminal insipid-ness and boredom (IMO). I’ve always thought that came from reverse osmosis to clean up the smoke, but not sure about that.

Yes, it was filtered and sold at a reduced price ($20) with full disclosure. This may have just been a timing issue for Rusty.
Not sure where he got that AH Farms was saying smoke was ‘part of the vintage terroir’ though. I didn’t read that.

Is there any source for the assertion that AHF did filter? Rusty says they did not, but as we’ve seen he may have not had complete information.

[Gerard_S]

Here is my summary of the Anthill situation:

1. They announced that they were declassifying certain wines due to smoke taint.
2. It was clear that the wine that was not appropriate for single vineyard was being blended into an appelation blend.
3. At some point after release, it became clear that a large number of people were sensitive to the smoke taint in the appelation blend.
4. Anyone who wanted their money back for wines has received it.

Contrast that with many 04 red burgs:

1. Some declassified, some refused.
2. At some point after release, it became clear that a large number of people were sensitive to the green taint.
3. No refunds

if you truly want to boycott someone, I would not pick Anthill…

[Russ_Williams]

@Gerard Stranch

Here is my summary of the Anthill situation:

1. They announced that they were declassifying certain wines due to smoke taint.
2. It was clear that the wine that was not appropriate for single vineyard was being blended into an appelation blend.
3. At some point after release, it became clear that a large number of people were sensitive to the smoke taint in the appelation blend.
4. Anyone who wanted their money back for wines has received it.

Contrast that with many 04 red burgs:

1. Some declassified, some refused.
2. At some point after release, it became clear that a large number of people were sensitive to the green taint.
3. No refunds

if you truly want to boycott someone, I would not pick Anthill…

From what we have learned thus far, now that we actually have some facts, I would concur with this sentiment. Could things have been handled better, absolutely, but I do not feel Anthill was trying to deceive anybody. Probably should have significantly lowered the price and told customers upfront, that while we do not detect any smoke in the wine if you are unhappy with it please let us know and we will happily refund your money. However, not enough here to boycott the winery.

[Nate_Simon]

@Robert.Fleming

@Lewis Dawson

One thing Nate understands but refuses to acknowledge is that some people are sensitive to the compound(s) associated with smoke taint, and others are not.

Fixed, per my reading of Nate’s posts in this thread.

In fact, I do not know this. I have never seen any study or data to demonstrate that. I cannot imagine anyone trying that 08 AH wine and missing it. Of course, their own tasting note omits it.

[TomHill]

@Lewis Dawson

…who released a 2004 syrah that had tons of terminal reduction problems? Is it really so different?

Hmmmm…that’s not a term I’m familiar with, Lew. Could you explain what “terminal reduction problems” are???

I’ve had wines that have been pretty reductive in character. KenBurnap’s Pinots & Cabs in the early-'80’s were very highly reduced,
stunk to high-heaven…fecal/sewer gas/Kansas outhouse. I called it the “Burnap stench”. But the stench was not “terminal” in the
sense it destroyed the wines and, with age, that stench went away and they evolved into some really beautiful wines. But, at release & when they were
first on the market, they were pretty much undrinkable because of the “Burnap stench”.
I usually consider a bit of a reductive smell in a red wine as a positive, provided the wine is structured for aging. It serve to protect the
wine over the long haul from oxidation. But then…I’m a bit strange…I think lipstick on pigs makes them look kinda cute.
Tom

[Lewis_Dawson]

@Nate Simon

@Robert.Fleming

@Lewis Dawson

One thing Nate understands but refuses to acknowledge is that some people are sensitive to the compound(s) associated with smoke taint, and others are not.

Fixed, per my reading of Nate’s posts in this thread.

In fact, I do not know this. I have never seen any study or data to demonstrate that. I cannot imagine anyone trying that 08 AH wine and missing it. Of course, their own tasting note omits it.

Nate, you could start by reading the threads about this wine from 2010, when it was shipped. Opinions were very divided. You could PM Adam Lee about his posts, which I related above (his posts may have been on eRP). Et cetera.

Or, as I mentioned above, you can boycott Anthill Farms, it is only wine, and its a free country. I’m just surprised that this one instance of a single flawed entry-level wine gets singled out so much with such angst. I am interested in your answer to my question about Rhys, if you’d care to respond. Not the same situation, but not totally different, IMO. BTW, I am a happy Rhys customer, and still have a bottle of that 2004 syrah.

[Peter_Petersen]

I feel that there is a pretty big difference in how Rhys and Anthill dealt with their issues.
The Rhys team are constantly online and ensured that people that were unhappy by the reduction and brett issues got refunds.
The Anthill team only reacted when people emailed them directly and as I recall not everyone who emailed got the same treatment.

Btw I didn’t personally ask or receive refunds/replacements from Rhys or Anthill.

[Edward_H_Earles]

@Z. A c s a n

@Thomas Keim

You want a real reason to boycott a winery?

Sig made it very clear who that company was that had turned them in, and made me swear that I would never purchase a bottle of wine from this company ever - and tell the story to whomever would listen. I’ve pulled bottles of wine out of people’s hands in grocery stores and told them this story. And I’m telling it again. The firm I am talking about was equally famous as a knife producer in Germany.

I did want to clarify something before we drift any further off topic. After a quick bit of researching, it appears that Henke**ll** the producer of inexpensive German Sekt (sparkling wine) does not share its lineage with J. A. Hen**ckels** the Soligen knifemaker, nor Henke**l** the German chemical giant.

Henkell & Co. Sektkellerei - Wikipedia
Zwilling J. A. Henckels - Wikipedia
Henkel - Wikipedia

Very easy to confuse the spellings and I’ve seen Henkell (the wine company - if indeed the same company) also spelled as Henkel in a document produced by the US Congress (Elimination of German resources of war v.1-9) wherein they reference Dutch Nazi collaborator Friedrich H. Fentener van Vlissingen and his daughter’s marriage and their ties to “the Henkel family, prominient German wine producers.” Not sure if there is another Henkel(l) in the wine business, but either way, it would appear they are unrelated to the Henckels company that produces knives.

I did find it interesting to note how the rise of the Third Reich helped revive the fortunes of Soligen. The “City of Blades” has long been considered one of the four greatest (some say THE greatest in terms of quality) historical sword centers of Europe. Hitler boosted their economy when he borrowed a page from the King Frederick William IV playbook, by choosing uniform designs that prominently featured dress edged weapons; most especially the dress dagger. Eickhorn was the single largest producer of military edged dress weapons during the rise of the Third Reich.

This is as far down the German rabbit hole as I care to go (for now).

Now on to more important things, like arguing about smoke taint and discussing other assorted crappy winery experiences…

See post #337 in this thread.

[Lewis_Dawson]

@Peter Petersen

I feel that there is a pretty big difference in how Rhys and Anthill dealt with their issues.
The Rhys team are constantly online and ensured that people that were unhappy by the reduction and brett issues got refunds.
The Anthill team only reacted when people emailed them directly and as I recall not everyone who emailed got the same treatment.

Btw I didn’t personally ask or receive refunds/replacements from Rhys or Anthill.

I agree with you, Peter, but Nate has made clear that Anthill’s “malfeasance” was in releasing the wine, not in how they dealt with complaints.

[Nate_Simon]

I don’t know anything about the Rhys situation. I wasn’t buying their wines at that time, and I don’t know the nature of this odd-sounding reductive issue.
Really, having had the 08 AH wine several times, it is seriously hard for me to imagine how anyone could miss the smoky, ashy flavor. That’s about all I can say, other than that I think producers did not do right by their customers by selling them the wine, at least without a strong disclaimer.

[Dale_Williams]

@Edward H. Earles

See post #337 in this thread.

What is the producer? There are I’d guess dozens of producers of ZSK (ack!). The knife photo is too blurred to read producer’s name.

[Z_A_c_s_a_n]

@Edward H. Earles

See post #337 in this thread.

I saw your post earlier, but it was a little too cryptic for me to know exactly what your were referencing. I do know the K55(K) was a popular pocket knife said to have been carried by German soldiers and that it was produced by HY Kaufmann in Solingen, but I didn’t turn up a Kaufmann ZSK wine. Please elaborate with more specific information about the Nazi connection here.

Knife info: Mercator K55K - Wikipedia

[Edward_H_Earles]

@Z. A c s a n

@Edward H. Earles

See post #337 in this thread.

I saw your post earlier, but it was a little too cryptic for me to know exactly what your were referencing. I do know the K55(K) was a popular pocket knife said to have been carried by German soldiers and that it was produced by HY Kaufmann in Solingen, but I didn’t turn up a Kaufmann ZSK wine. Please elaborate with more specific information about the Nazi connection here.

Knife info: Mercator K55K - Wikipedia

I was just connecting “Black Cat” wine and “Black Cat” Knives. I didn’t realize that there were multiple producers of both.

When we get this straightened out, I suspect that both producers will trace back to either I.G.Farben, or Rheinmetall, as a parent company.

[Thomas_Keim]

@Z. A c s a n

@Thomas Keim

You want a real reason to boycott a winery?

Sig made it very clear who that company was that had turned them in, and made me swear that I would never purchase a bottle of wine from this company ever - and tell the story to whomever would listen. I’ve pulled bottles of wine out of people’s hands in grocery stores and told them this story. And I’m telling it again. The firm I am talking about was equally famous as a knife producer in Germany.

I did want to clarify something before we drift any further off topic. After a quick bit of researching, it appears that Henke**ll** the producer of inexpensive German Sekt (sparkling wine) does not share its lineage with J. A. Hen**ckels** the Soligen knifemaker, nor Henke**l** the German chemical giant.

Henkell & Co. Sektkellerei - Wikipedia
Zwilling J. A. Henckels - Wikipedia
Henkel - Wikipedia

Very easy to confuse the spellings and I’ve seen Henkell (the wine company - if indeed the same company) also spelled as Henkel in a document produced by the US Congress (Elimination of German resources of war v.1-9) wherein they reference Dutch Nazi collaborator Friedrich H. Fentener van Vlissingen and his daughter’s marriage and their ties to “the Henkel family, prominient German wine producers.” Not sure if there is another Henkel(l) in the wine business, but either way, it would appear they are unrelated to the Henckels company that produces knives.

I did find it interesting to note how the rise of the Third Reich helped revive the fortunes of Soligen. The “City of Blades” has long been considered one of the four greatest (some say THE greatest in terms of quality) historical sword centers of Europe. Hitler boosted their economy when he borrowed a page from the King Frederick William IV playbook, by choosing uniform designs that prominently featured dress edged weapons; most especially the dress dagger. Eickhorn was the single largest producer of military edged dress weapons during the rise of the Third Reich.

This is as far down the German rabbit hole as I care to go (for now).

Now on to more important things, like arguing about smoke taint and discussing other assorted crappy winery experiences…

Thanks for clearing that up Z - always confused over the two -

[S_Reynolds]

Not saying people should boycot Stolpman (not really sure I even understand his position in this series of events), but I thought this was an interesting read that you all might enjoy and it seems halfway appropriate for this thread…

Initial Story: The Gray Report: Retailer pisses off winery by promoting its wine
Followup: The Gray Report: Plot twist in winery-retailer spat: Stolpman to visit nearby store

[Chris_Seiber]

With all respect for other opinions and emotions regarding Anthill Farms, it’s hard for me to think of a winery which has been as consistent in quality as they have been, with that the exception of that single $34 bottle of 2008 AV pinot.

I guess there have been a few recent disappointments with the 06 Abbey Harris at age 6-7, though I haven’t had that wine myself, but I can hardly even think of another instance where I’ve heard anyone complain about a bad experience with AF wines. They are amazingly consistent in their quality, and I think their pricing is at the low end as compared to comparable producers (most of their SVD Sonoma and Anderson Valley pinots selling for $44).

And I’m telling you, the 2010 AF Campbell Ranch Chardonnay, a Sonoma SVD chardonnay from a good producer, for $19? That had to be among the best QPR buys of the year last year. They could have easily sold that for double the price (hopefully they aren’t reading this post) and had happy customers. Plus, that wine appears to be one which will improve with age.

But I do understand those who feel burned (no pun intended) by the experience and have moved on. The thing is, there are so many great producers and wines out there, you don’t have to have that huge of a reason to decide to move on. One bad experience about a return, one lousy bottle, one rude person on the phone or in the tasting room, and it’s quite easy to move elsewhere – in fact, we all struggle with buying too much, so it’s almost a relief when you have a reason to drop someone.

It’s sort of the opposite of the airlines, which we all have one after another bad experience with, but there’s only a small number to choose from, and price pretty much dictates your choice, so we just put our heads down and keep going back.

[jchaney]

At the IPOB San Francisco tasting I was completely snubbed by a certain Mendocino Ridge producer. I stood next to his table waiting for the first pour as he finished a conversation with a woman who even apologized for keeping his attention for so long. I have a lot of patience, and thought nothing of it at all. However, the next few moments I realized the owner/winemaker had a 1,000 mile stare a professional boxer would appreciate and since I was the only person standing in front of him at this time, something must be wrong.

Just then another man walked up and said “you have been standing here forever!” He really said that. I was feeling very uncomfortable now. This producer then greeted and poured for this man who just walked up. My now verbal request to try his wines (which I have worked hard to sell and make placements for in my past work) were again ignored. At this point I felt really offended and tried one last time for at least eye contact, but he just stood there looking past me with his hands behind his back. Wow, I thought, this has never happened to me before. I left his table and continued through the rest of the tasting with great conversations and insightful discussions with all the other producers pouring.

I can usually give anyone the benefit of the doubt for any shortcomings at a crowded tasting, but I have never been treated like this in the 50+ tastings I have been to. I got straight DISSED!

I pulled their wine from my list and will not be purchasing any ever again. I think the worst part was that I was hoping to really make a connection with him that day and create a relationship. Boy was I wrong. Maybe I looked like a guy who kicked his dog or something…

[Lewis_Dawson]

I have boycotted since 1985 all things associated with the Benziger family over their appropriation of the term “Private Reserve” for low-quality bulk-sourced wines. And all California producers who steal Old World place names, such as Chablis, for the confusion and damage they cause to those famous appellations. In both cases, apologists who say “no harm, no foul” are flat wrong. I have seen the damage.

Since I first met Jayson Pahlmeyer in about 1988 or 1989, I have boycotted his wines because he was an arrogant prick and willing to lie to promote his own self importance. At a tasting with 40 CA cab producers present, he told me “Over 95% of the winemakers in this room buy wine from me to improve their wines. Even if only 3 to 5% of it is from me, it makes a big difference.” My companion pointed at the table across the aisle, and told Pahlmeyer, “Well, the wine you sold that guy, you should have kept it!” And she dumped the Pahlmeyer in a dump bucket and walked away.