Please educate me re: Rioja!

After all of these years drinking and collecting, I am just discovering the wines of Rioja. A few choice bottles have opened my eyes to what I have been missing. The epiphany wine was a friend’s '78 López de Herredia Gran Reserva Viña Tondonia. I’ve since enjoyed their '01 Reserva Tondonia and their '95 Gran Reserva Bosconia. A recent '99 C.V.N.E. Cune Imperial Gran Reserva was amongst the best $70 restaurant wines ever!

It’s clear I’m starting a new Spanish love affair, but need to know more about the objects of my affection, for example:

What are the typical grapes?

What’s the difference between Crianza, Reserva, Gran Reserva?

traditionalists vs. modernists?

Now that I’m smitten by Lopez de Herredia and C.V.N.E, what other wineries should I seek?

and while I’m at it, what’s the difference between the LdH Tondonia and Bosconia, any why the different bottle shapes?

Thanks for advice and words of wisdom.

Salud!

Warren

I’m by no means an expert, but I love Rioja and drink a lot of them.

Crianza, Reserva and Gran Reserva are legal definitions. Crianzas have to be aged for two years before release (with at least one year year in oak. Reservas need to be aged for at least three years (minimum of one year in oak). Gran Reservas have to spend at least two years in oak and three in bottle before being released. The “at least” part is very important since many wines at the Reserva and particularly Gran Reserva level spend considerably more time in both oak and bottle before being released (they can spend decades in bottles before being released).

Even though the wines see a lot of time in oak, it’s often older oak, so the wines may not be as over the top as 100% new oak would be. But that said, some of them can be fairly assertive in their oak character.

Grape varieties are also legally controlled but the dominant grape is tempranillo, followed by garnacha (grenache), and graciano and mazuelo. (There are white Riojas as well, but I’ll stick to reds for now).

As for modern vs traditional styles, there’s no absolute definition. Traditional wines are generally less ripe with less forward fruit flavors. Modern styles have more fruit and often use newer oak (and often French vs American). For each of these generalizations, you could find a wine in either camp that makes a liar of me. I happen to like both styles (or at least wines from producers who are traditionally thrown in one column or the other), but I am partial to traditionalists. Neither is better - they’re just different. Lopez de Herredia, CVNE, Murrieta, Riscal, La Rioja Alta, are definitely traditional. All are worth seeking out at pretty much any level (Crianza through Gran Reservas).

But hope that folks like LMD Ermitaño (who I believe is involved in importing Riojas into the Philippines) and others chime in since they know far more than me.

Warren - you need to do a search of this forum. All those questions have been answered many times.

Crianza, Reserva, and Gran Reserva are categories that apply throughout Spain. Crianza is usually released in the third year, having spent at least six months in cask, although in places like Rioja and Navarra, it spends at least a year in cask. Reserva has been in cask for a year and bottle for two, and Gran Reserva in cask for at least 2 years and bottle for at least three. But those are minimums and the wines can spend more time - most GRs for example, spend a lot more time in cask and in bottle. Usually the bodega uses the better grapes for the Reserva and GR as well.

Those categories are increasingly discarded however, and eventually may go away entirely. The crianza category is desired in Spain because it’s a popular category for restaurants in Spain, but it’s really a stupid category and some of the better bodegas simply do Reserva and GR and don’t bother with crianza. In America, it’s pretty much a useless category and a lot of producers don’t even put the word on the label because consumers don’t know what it means anyway. However, if you look for old vintages, you can find some crianzas that are quite good even after 20 years, even though that’s not really the rule.

Grapes are Tempranillo. Sometimes 100%, sometimes blended with Mazuelo, Graciano, or Garnacha and sometimes even with Cab in the old days, but Tempranillo is always the main grape, if not the only grape. Graciano was almost extinct but for Jesus Madrazo and LdH, and certain MWs announced authoritatively that it’s at best a minor blending grape. But then, hardly anyone was making it on its own. More recently, more people are growing it and it can be interesting - very acidic but I suppose if they were to do more with it in the south of the country or in parts of Australia it could become extremely interesting.

Tradition vs modern is mostly a bullshit distinction. Some people have discovered the wines and decided that they’re all supposed to be like Tondonia, but that’s a typical oversimplification. What most people consider “traditional” is what was introduced by the Marques de Riscal and Marques de Murrieta in the 1850s. Prior to that, most of the wine was more or less like young Beaujolais. Those guys introduced the idea of holding the wine in barrels like they did in Bordeaux. In Bordeaux they did it because they were waiting for the British ships to pick it up; in Rioja they did it because they saw it happen in Bordeaux. And then Spain had phylloxera and civil war and Franco and the wine industry just kind of stayed in Spain so today people think that’s all traditional and intentional, but it’s mostly an accident of history.

That said, turns out that there’s no red grape that can age as well or as long as Tempranillo, so it kind of worked out.

The main dif with the “modern” wines is that they’re released earlier than they might have been in the past - just like they are in Bordeaux, so the bodegas let the customer age the wines themselves, and they often have spent time in French barriques rather than American casks. That gives some people hives because it’s not what’s “supposed” to happen, but the wines can be really good so it 's kind of silly to reflexively complain about French oak.

The reason for the different bottle shape is that many of the older wineries would put out a more aromatic and powerful style, which came in the Rhone bottle, and and elegant style, which went into the Bordeaux bottle. Partly that has to do with the blend and with the source of the grapes - Rioja is roughly divided into three large regions and CVNE for example, would use the Rhone bottles for grapes from Rioja Alavesa while the Bordeaux bottles would get the grapes from Rioja Alta. For Tondonia and Bosconia, they come from different vineyards, have different amounts of non-Tempranillo grapes, and sometimes are aged differently. If a bodega does both styles, they’re usually both pretty good.

If you’re interested, you should look for the centenary wineries. A few were built in Haro to be near the trains, so those all count, but there are others as well and there are new producers who are making wines that are “traditional” even though those producers are pretty much brand new. I’ll let someone else give you lists of bodegas - I think I may have posted something about them at one point in the past though.

Well, that;s a provocative statement and, while I love old rioja, I am not sure I buy that

Ain’t old Rioja one of them [u]Fight Club[/u] wines?

You started in very good places. Others I would suggest:

  • La Rioja Alta
  • Muga (Reserva)
  • Marques de Murrieta (Reserva and ‘Ygay’ Gran Reserva)

You might find this article helpful - among other things, it explores the distinction (bullshit or not) between ‘traditional’ and ‘modern’: http://www.timatkin.com/articles?797

In addition to la Rioja alta, I’ve really like Pecina and Muga.

I’ve enjoyed some heredias, but I often find them a bit tart for my taste. For what that’s worth.

Scott

We had a '28 Peternina Rioja Grand Reserva the other week that was pretty amazing, and in no way yet on the way out…

Check out a Muga Prado Enea. The 2001 GR is still on shelves around here and drinking quite well for being so youthful. I see you’ve had the '01 Tondonia Reserva, which to my palate still needs much more time than the Muga (though the Muga will also go the distance).

And be sure to give the Lopez blancos a try if you haven’t yet (the rosados, too, but you’ll have to be unusually lucky to find one before the '06s are released in 2016 or so). The 1996 Tondonia Reserva blanco is out now, and wonderful. The Gravonia will give you a taste of the style at a lower price, but the Tondonia is certainly a bargain itself. As much as I love the tintos, it was the blancos and rosados that first got me into Lopez de Heredia, and I still drink as many of those as the red Riojas. I’m unsure if any other of the handful of traditional producers still make a long-aging blanco like the Tondonia and Gravonia. I don’t believe any do. A shame, really. But you can count on Lopez to endure.

One thing that surprised me when I visited Rioja and the Basque country in general was how the Bosconia is considered a much more lowly wine than the Tondonia. However, I prefer them in some vintages and with certain meals. The Tondonias are the quintessential traditional Rioja, gentle and mellow, with the fruit clearly giving way to the more vinous elements of the wine. The Bosconias are considerably fruitier and more effusive, and often carry the American oak much more brashly in their youth (major dill bombs sometimes). The story goes that the Tondonia was intended to be analogous to Bordeaux and Bosconia to Burgundy, hence the bottle shapes. And I think that analogy holds up well, at least when one compares to traditional BDX and Burgs with some degree of generalization. Bosconia/Tondonia are also single vineyard wines, their areas of planting quite distinct, and though producer style is paramount here, terroir differences cannot be discounted. In fact, the slightly different colored wax caps on the Gran Reservas are tinted with earth from the respective vineyards.

GregT is a wise and experienced taster. You’d do well to take his advice. That said, I’ve never personally tasted a “modernist” Rioja that I’ve liked at all (which to me means new French oak barrique - or even French oak of any age - and a considerably more densely extracted style).

You need to read this: http://www.lopezdeheredia.com/noticias/View.pdf

And if you speak Spanish, you need to watch this (and even if you don’t speak Spanish, you’ll get the gist): http://www.alicefeiring.com/blog/2011/11/comparative-winemaking-styles-in-rioja.html

I have had wonderful experiences with +/- 10 year old Marques de Murrieta ‘Ygay’ blanco. Whether it will evolve and endure as long as the LdH I do not know, but it’s a candidate.

Funny, I was about to ask if anyone had experience with “older” versions of the ‘Ygay’ Blanca. I picked up a '73 from Chambers for my 40th this Saturday, but really have no idea what to expect.

Bodegas Riojanas is also well-made traditional Rioja.

The oldest I ever had was a was a 1985, circa 1999. It had a creamy texture and a lovely honeyed character, making me think of a dry Sauternes.

Good luck with your bottle. Happy birthday.

Thanks Robert, looking back at the post, I realized we are talking about 2 different things. You were talking about the Blanco, and I have the “Blanca” which is actually a red.

Loathe as I am to disagree with Greg since he knows far more about Spanish wine than I ever will, I don’t find the traditionalist/modernist distinction useless.

For example in CVNE, I find noticeable stylistic differences between, say, pre-2001 Imperiale,2001+ Imperiale, Contino (somewhat modernist) and Vina del Olivo. I always prefer the pre-2001 Imperiale and Vina Real when young but with age (around 25-30 years) I find the Contino to be just as good so I’m hoping the newer styled wines will also eventually come around. My preference would be for them to made in the older style (which for me means whatever they were doing from the 1950s to 2000) but I haven’t given up on them. Will the Olivo ever turn into something I like? I don’t know and I’m not laying any down so I won’t find out unless someone else opens one for me down the road.

A recent 2004 Muga Prado Enea was sensational.

Jay - I don’t know about your first point but the second paragraph is interesting and it’s something that people don’t consider. The “modern” styles do tend to age just like you want Tempranillo to age. I’ve posted this before, but when I asked Isaac Muga about his Torre Muga, he said to drink it up in the first few years. I told him that I’d had one a week earlier that was 12 years old and he said, “Oh no. If you keep that then you’ll just have a Gran Reserva.”

Not every wine from every winemaker will age that gracefully, but more will than won’t. Regarding Contino, that’s just an outstanding estate. If you call something modern, the idea with Contino was to make an estate wine rather than blending grapes from various parts of Rioja, and in some ways that’s “modern” but it’s the same thing that LdH does with Tondonia. It’s about the source of grapes, rather than the winemaking. Contino is in a protected area that’s kind of like a huge bowl, so it’s warmer than many other vineyards in Haro and is usually the first to harvest as a result. In contrast, the Tondonia vineyards are on a sloping hillside across the river from the mountains, and they get colder winds regularly. Olivo again is not so much about winemaking - it’s made from selected grapes from the parcel around the olive tree. Give it time!

BTW - start looking at some of the Roda wines that now have maybe 20 years on. Even Gerry Dawes had to admit that they aged nicely. They’re right next door to LdH, so it’s not like there are great differences in terroir, and once you add the time, they start seeming like “classic” Riojas. Even tho they’re much cleaner than the LdHs, that Tempranillo funk starts appearing.

The change you note in CVNE is more interesting. Basilio Izquierdo left in what, 1998? He was there for over 30 years, so it’s probably not a surprise that the change you refer to came shortly after his departure. There seem to have been a few other changes as well and there’s some controversy over the stories. However, the 2001 and the 2005 Imperials are still pretty good IMO!

Neal - I don’t know, maybe it’s a provocative statement, but I can’t think of many other grapes that produce still wines that drink as well at 80 years. Actually I take that back - Nebbiolo is another. Both of those seem to go on for so much longer than anything else I’ve had and I understand that my personal experience is skewed since I’ve had more old Spanish and Italian wine than French, but of those I have had, the Cab-based wines don’t seem to go quite as long once you start getting into the 1940s and earlier. Also, there’s more diff between a Cab from the 1960s and 1940s than in a Tempranillo of the same range. Sweet or fortified wines are of course a different story altogether.

Looking at my first post it’s a little more strident than I wanted it to be.

In fact, there is a bit of truth to the “modern” vs “traditional” but first some history.

In the 1600s and 1700s, Rioja was known as the poor man’s claret in London. It was basically made by numerous small growers. In the mid 1800s, Riscal and Murrieta separately tried to introduce innovations that they’d seen in France - things like estate bottling, for example, or cask aging.

In the 1870s bodegas like LdH were considered pioneers. They were revolutionary, unlike the winery today. But that’s when phylloxera hit France and a lot of winemakers came over to Rioja to work and that’s really what created what people consider “traditional” Rioja. Other people think that the French basically colonized Rioja and destroyed the local customs.

In any event, the idea of estate bottled wines came over, along with the idea of putting the wine in casks for shipment and/or storage. Then phylloxera hit Spain but the French figured out grafting onto American rootstock and went home. Early 1900s in Spain was a rough time. There was the Spanish American War and Spain lost influence around the world, there were a few depressions, a few world wars, a civil war, and many years of Franco’s dictatorship.

In the 1970s, Spain and Spanish wine woke up. But so did Piedmont, Brunello, Bordeaux, CdP and elsewhere. So when they adopted rules in the 1970s that created what people think of today as “traditional” Barolo, Brunello, etc., nobody complained. They’re traditional to us after forty years, but they were newly-established rules at the time.

In Spain as elsewhere, people looked around to see if there was a way to sell more wine. Muga and LdH and the others will tell you that they kept their wines so long in large part because they couldn’t sell them. So why not put out something that the market will snatch up fast? And why create a winery today but wed yourself to some “tradition” that was created 100 years ago? Thus you have Ramirez de Ganuza and others who don’t want to create dirty wineries today, but who want to see what Tempranillo can do.

At this point there are many wineries making many styles of wine and it’s not useful to call them traditional or modern. Marques de Caceres was started in the 1970s. Are they “modern”? Not really. Bodegas Olarra and Beronia were created in the 1980s and their wines are some of the most “traditional” you’ll find. Miguel Merino started in the 1990s and his wines age to perfection. He’s great friends with everyone in the region so he has access to all of their know-how.

And the list goes on. Moreover, it’s not like there was ever any kind of controversy other than that stirred up by wine writers - most houses kept doing what they always did even though progressing in other areas. Anyhow, good luck on your searches!

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Greg, those are really interesting points. Thanks for sharing them.

The problem with that for me, of course, is that I love Grand Reserva at most ages and I dislike Torre Muga when young. Whereas, for example, I love the 2004 Prado Enea now and based on earlier vintages when it’s 30 years old.

I love Rioja, it’s one of my favorite types of wine. I do not like the modern, California-style riojas. I prefer traditional, smoky, minerally expressions.

2004 was a good vintage and you can find excellent 2004 Riojas easily, even from producers who usually make less notable wines.

The 2000 Montecillo Gran Reserva, while quite inexpensive, was one of the best wines I’ve ever tasted…really remarkably good…and it is the wine that kindled my love affair with Rioja. I don’t know if it’s now past its prime, as I haven’t been able to find any in some years, but if by chance you stumble across it, buy what you can get.