Is using plastic barrels really catching on in California? If so are you open about it or is there still a stigma attached to using plastic vessels and oak staves/chips during aging?
I have a friend who makes some wine using juice purchased from CA, and he uses plastic (+ oak chips for his reds.) The white wines aren’t bad. The reds are very thin without character…nothing close to what I’m used to in a traditionally made bottle of the same varietal.
I’d be interested to know the price points of the wines discussed.
I’ve almost always seen plastic tanks used only short-term storage at places I’ve worked in or visited - such as for settling wine after press and before going into barrel, and for before bottling.
I did visit Hank Beckmeyer at La Clarine Farm in the Sierra Foothills about a year ago, and he’s using various types of plastic tanks (flex tanks and others) for aging many of his wines, specifically to avoid any oak flavors at all. He uses them as basically a low-cost alternative to concrete.
Check out the Wine Business Monthly tank review … http://www.winebusin…le&dataId=86288 . The article mentions a winemaker using IBC HDPE totes for up to 4 months. I personally have not seen that. HDPE is somewhat porous and allows oxygen to move in which means fermentation should not be an issue but delicate wines should not be stored for very long…Gary
The PD article mentioned flex tanks for aging and the winemaker adding oak staves or chips to impart flavor/tannin. Im wondering if this is turning into a trend or simply a byproduct of low inventory of oak barrels due to the heavy 2012 harvest.
More than a handful of producers in CO (and other states) use plastic tanks instead of stainless steel.
With respect to IBC tanks they are much cheaper new and used food grade tanks can be had for $100 each +/- $50 depending on bottom pallet type(wood, plastic, metal). Therefore I think cost is the major factor and that they can be successfully used for short term operations. Also ease of movement with a pallet jack gives them movability. I have seen Sierra Foothills and Ontario wineries use them more for temporary storage while juggling ss tanks and barrels during harvest and bottling. I have a couple of them for water storage only…Gary
Add - There are triple-liner bags that fit IBCs and the like that some use for fermentation and aging…see …http://www.spectrellising.com/winery/fermentation.php . I have not seen anyone use these but the triple-lining claims lower oxygen transmission rates.
Plastic or steel plus chips is nothing really new - people have been doing it for a while. But it’s not the same as oak barrels
The original point of oak barrels was just the fact that they were stronger than clay jugs - there wasn’t a lot of choice back in the day. Turns out that they also had the salutary effect of providing a little micro-oxygenation, which people didn’t understand early on, but which helps wine age. I think the whole idea of oak as a flavoring component is relatively recent - like since the 1970s or so, and it’s around that time that people figured if it’s only about flavor, just add the chips.
But if you’re not fermenting or storing in oak, why add chips or vanilla flavoring? Just make an un-oaked wine. And if you’re doing that, I’d rather it not be done in plastic. Not to be an alarmist or anything, but I kind of don’t like the idea of so much plastic all over. It’s really useful to be sure, esp for temp storage, but there seem to be better alternatives.
The rise in use of these is directly correlated to increased yields in 2012 and 2013. The reality is that oak barrels were harder to come by than most thought they would be, especially used white barrels, and therefore more and more wineries were and are using these for short term storage. Are some wineries fermenting in them? Yep, they certainly are. Are some using them with oak staves for longer term storage? Yep, they certainly are. Is this ‘bad’? Not sure why it would be considered so, especially without tasting the wines blind and without knowing the storage vessel.
The real question will be what will happen when this worldwide ‘shortage’ hits us and we don’t have enough grapes . . . (-:
Cheers!
Polymers like high density polyethylene(HDPE) are stable clean and used for containing many things found around the house. HDPE can have a very high oxygen and carbon dioxide transmission rate which means a standard IBC tank might not be suitable for longer term wine use. I think the polymer tank drivers are easy cleaning/reuse, movement flexibility, capacity choices and cost. A used IBC tank has 4x capacity at a third, or more, the cost of a 1-2 yr old oak barrel…Gary
From the article:
Like many winemakers, Mitch Black scrambled to find a place to store his wine last year when the largest grape crop in California history unleashed a flood of wine.
Companies that make wooden barrels and steel tanks couldn’t churn them out them fast enough to meet demand from wineries and growers, like Black, who were looking for a place to put their juice.
So Black, along with a growing number of winemakers in California, turned to plastic containers to ferment and store his valuable crop.
“I went big into Flextanks last year, because I didn’t have another option,” said Black, owner of Black Knight Vineyards.
In an old barn surrounded by vineyards on his Santa Rosa property, Black keeps several plastic cylindrical barrels that he uses for his personal winemaking. A batch of pinot noir grapes ferment in a thick, blue plastic olive barrel that holds about 55 gallons of grapes and their steaming juices, while a series of 70-gallon Flextanks, made of a oxygen-permeable polyethylene, hold maturing pinot noir from the 2012 and 2013 crops.
For his commercial operation, Black has a series of larger, stackable Flextanks that hold up to 300 gallons.
Seems he is using them for long term storage as well.
After reading the article and the posts, I can see the plastic tanks seem to have a use, but I am not a big fan.
+1
I have had many customers taste topping wine from carboy and beg me to bottle a version of that Pinot Noir that never touched a barrel. Its also a great teaching tool as most dont really know what oak tastes like and how it changes Pinot Noir. We discussed doing one in stainless but after talking to a lot of folks and tasting many wines we decided on the thicker (like a neutral barrel transmission rates) for 125 case production of a unoaked Pinot Noir. The wine continues to develop with the O2 unlike stainless or glass storage. I wont be using any alternative oak products just pure wild yeast, wild ml, unfinned, unfiltered Pinot Noir: ingredients- grapes and sulfur.
There was a thread on Cellar Rats (ITB) about it and I think Berry Crawford is aging some wine in a flextank this year as well. You got to keep them full and watch free so2 and va close.
I made wines from three vineyards this year commercially and for all three I had the custom crush place put the pressed wine into 30 gallon flex tanks to make it easier for me once I do the bond-to-bond transfer.
I am considering keeping them there because I really like red wines that are oak neutral and I would potentially have to worry less about brett. I choose the Flex tank ECO tanks because they are advertised as being equivalent to a second year oak barrel but a couple of winemakers have told me that they seemed to have less oxygenation than a real barrel. As a result of those conversations I have some neutral white wine barrels at the ready to transfer to if I feel they could use it.
Its all going to be a learning experience for me and I let the results speak for themselves instead of having any preconceived notions. I do know that wines Ive made at home and aged in Carboys lack a roundness that oak aged wines have but at the same time have brighter, more fresh fruit flavors.
The use chips/staves gets a bad rap since it’s a way to spoof cheap wine and often overdone in that market.
What if a winemaker wanted to have his wine taste as if it was raised in barrel, but saw plastic + staves as a cheaper and more sustainable option, and had a recipe that in the end was indistinguishable from real barrels? I’d agree if someone said that the wine was spoofed, but to not buy on ideological basis, one has to weigh that against the competing ideologies of sustainability and cost, both of which are tangibly important, and neither of which is quality cooperage friendly to.
I’m not a fan either. My Italian grandfather made his wine in the basement in plastic tubs too, starting in the 20s (I’m told) through the 1960s. It was god-awful stuff.