Phases of Aging Riesling

[David_Bu3ker]

Scorn? No.

But I look at vintages with fascination, not an assessment of worth, except in the rare cases of truly bad or weird vintages. 2006 is weird because of all the botrytis, and not to everyone’s taste.

Richness and acid levels go up and down from year to year. 1997 was not terribly well regarded by some when it came out. The wines are delicious now. 2009 is starting to round into form at age ten. 2003 is even slimming down a bit. They are all “interesting” just different.

[Alan_Rath]

My point was that, IMO, a vintage like 2015 might be interesting and fun to drink, particularly young (to be honest, it’s too ripe for my tastes, even young, overall) - but I don’t think they will become more interesting in 10-15 years. For that, my own rule of thumb is to look for higher acid, more taut and zingy wines. Disclaimer: I long ago stopped buying any sweet Riesling, because it’s just not as interesting to me as the dry versions, young or old.

[Sc0tt_F_tzgerald]

On release on the east coast it was easily available for $45.

Yep, I got the 2016 for $43

[David_Bu3ker]

My point was that, IMO, a vintage like 2015 might be interesting and fun to drink, particularly young (to be honest, it’s too ripe for my tastes, even young, overall) - but I don’t think they will become more interesting in 10-15 years. For that, my own rule of thumb is to look for higher acid, more taut and zingy wines. Disclaimer: I long ago stopped buying any sweet Riesling, because it’s just not as interesting to me as the dry versions, young or old.

Buy what you like to drink.

But it isn’t just high acid Riesling that gets interesting with age.

[David_Bu3ker]

On release on the east coast it was easily available for $45.

Yep, I got the 2016 for $43

2018 set me back $47.

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

Age is the #1 most important thing for German riesling, in my opinion. I think $20 90 point kabinett at age 20 is not only better, but far better, than $60 95 point spatlese when young.

Young riesling is a sweet grape beverage which tastes nice, but isn’t really a wine experience to me. And I think they taste very similar to each other when young, too. When the fruit recedes and you have modest sweetness alongside the bony mineral, that’s when it really become a wine experience for me.

And it’s amazing how high your odds are with older riesling. You don’t have to have gotten the perfect producer, bottle and/or vintage to get good results decades down the road. Solid bottles from solid producers seem to have a very high hit rate, at least for me.

But it’s not easy to source mature riesling. I think very little of it makes it to older age, and most of what does is the ultra-sweet dessert style ones that don’t interest me as much. It’s sort of the curse of being a wine that goes down easily at younger ages, so it doesn’t make it to when it becomes really great. It’s a lot easier to lay off your Barolo and Bordeaux until maturity, since it’s not that compelling along the way.

Those are must my opinions, and I think I’m in a smaller minority in it.

I agree with all of this except I do enjoy young Riesling, and do believe it to be a legit “wine experience.”

[Chris_Seiber]

My point was that, IMO, a vintage like 2015 might be interesting and fun to drink, particularly young (to be honest, it’s too ripe for my tastes, even young, overall) - but I don’t think they will become more interesting in 10-15 years. For that, my own rule of thumb is to look for higher acid, more taut and zingy wines. Disclaimer: I long ago stopped buying any sweet Riesling, because it’s just not as interesting to me as the dry versions, young or old.

I knew I should have stayed out of this thread. You Riesling people are a different breed.

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

Alan is right; his opinion is not shared by everyone.

I’m all-in on 2015 (and 2010).

[Alan_Rath]

I knew I should have stayed out of this thread. You Riesling people are a different breed.

Ha, you think talking politics and religion is dangerous, try talking about wine and watch the long knives come out!

[Chris_Seiber]

I knew I should have stayed out of this thread. You Riesling people are a different breed.

Ha, you think talking politics and religion is dangerous, try talking about wine and watch the long knives come out!

[DougS]

I bought a couple cases of 2015s to put away. See you in 2030 and beyond if I’m still around.

Far too warm/ripe vintage to age into anything interesting. Sell those, and buy something from a better vintage. I know this is an opinion that will be met with scorn here, but it’s my opinion. Keep a couple and test my theory - you can either toast me or curse me

My point was that, IMO, a vintage like 2015 might be interesting and fun to drink, particularly young (to be honest, it’s too ripe for my tastes, even young, overall) - but I don’t think they will become more interesting in 10-15 years. For that, my own rule of thumb is to look for higher acid, more taut and zingy wines. Disclaimer: I long ago stopped buying any sweet Riesling, because it’s just not as interesting to me as the dry versions, young or old.

No scorn here, Alan, but to put it simply, you’re wrong.

First, 2015 is not a low-acid vintage, or even a vintage of moderate acidity. Acid levels are relatively high. I suppose you might think some '14s will age better than their 2015 counterparts, but that would just be silly. Plus, I’m not even sure their acid levels are significantly higher, though you can taste it quite a lot more in many cases.

Second, lots of really ripe vintages, even some with much lower acidity than '15s, have developed quite well. How many '97s or '03s have you had in the past few years? I’ve had a few, and those from good producers have been lovely (with '03s being really surprisingly good in their quality and development). Heck, 1976 was a ripe year, a vintage with loads of heat and even drought. How do you think those have aged?

Finally, your view is not shared by any true authority on German wines. No one is even close to that conclusion. I’m not saying that proves anything, but it should raise serious doubts, especially in combination with my other points.

I agree with David that you should buy what you like, but saying 2015s won’t become more interesting with age is completely unfounded.

[David_K2]

No scorn here, Alan, but to put it simply, you’re wrong.

First, 2015 is not a low-acid vintage, or even a vintage of moderate acidity. Acid levels are relatively high. I suppose you might think some '14s will age better than their 2015 counterparts, but that would just be silly. Plus, I’m not even sure their acid levels are significantly higher, though you can taste it quite a lot more in many cases.

Second, lots of really ripe vintages, even some with much lower acidity than '15s, have developed quite well. How many '97s or '03s have you had in the past few years? I’ve had a few, and those from good producers have been lovely (with '03s being really surprisingly good in their quality and development). Heck, 1976 was a ripe year, a vintage with loads of heat and even drought. How do you think those have aged?

Finally, your view is not shared by any true authority on German wines. No one is even close to that conclusion. I’m not saying that proves anything, but it should raise serious doubts, especially in combination with my other points.

I agree with David that you should buy what you like, but saying 2015s won’t become more interesting with age is completely unfounded.

I have to agree with Doug here. I mean, you can like 2015 or not, but that it’s a high-acid vintage is an objective fact. Yes, it’s a ripe vintage also – the two are not mutually exclusive. And while only time will tell how they age, there is nothing to suggest at this point they are not agers.

[Otto_Forsberg]

I thought that 2015 and 2017 were too warm and ripe for my taste, but experience has proven me wrong. These wines certainly show ripeness, but also remarkable levels of acidity and intensity. I guess these vintages had cool enough nights to keep the acidity levels high and growing season long.

2016 wines seem to be less ripe than 2015, but also with less concentration and lower acidities. 2018 wines seem to show similar ripeness as 2017, but with markedly lower acidities, suggesting warmer nights.

These are just broad strokes, but ones that have been quite consistent in vertical tastings. If looking for cellarworthy Rieslings, I’d look for primarily 2015s and then 2017s. Some of the best 2016s have been remarkable, but the overall quality hasn’t been that great. 2018 doesn’t seem to be a good vintage for German Riesling, if you like acidity and freshness.

[David_Bu3ker]

2018 requires careful selection. There are some really wonderful wines that strike the right balance, but you cannot buy blind.

[Otto_Forsberg]

2018 requires careful selection. There are some really wonderful wines that strike the right balance, but you cannot buy blind.

Agreed. This seems to be the case with most non-top vintages of German Riesling. With great vintages you can buy blind pretty care-free.

[J_Rock]

I’m kind of bummed that 2018, which is my wedding year, isn’t supposed to be a great Riesling vintage. However, I’ve already read that my favorite producers have still managed to produce great wines in 2018, so we’ll see. I’m actually going to an importer tasting next week where I’m anticipating I’ll get to taste many '18s from my favorite producers.

[DougS]

For the most part, the best producers in Germany are making great wines every year at this point. That doesn’t necessarily mean every wine they make will be great, but it’s possible to be selective, especially with styles that aren’t trocken, and buy great, ageworthy wines from any post-2000 vintage. Depending on which importer it is, that tasting might be a great opportunity to find some wines to buy for the cellar.

[bob_parsons_alberta]

I have had some nice 2012 Flick wines from the Rheingau.