Phases of Aging Riesling

[Otto_Forsberg]

Where are you guys finding all these $60 Spatlesen?

They’re buying 2 bottles.

At $60? At that price one should buy a case of 6 bottles and still get some change.

[John_Morris]

Where are you guys finding all these $60 Spatlesen? Are you sure you are not buying GG wines?

It’s hard to pay that much, but Egon Mueller Spatlese runs $90-$150, and Robert Weil’s Kiedricher Grafenberg can set you back $60.

[Mike_Francisco]

Age is the #1 most important thing for German riesling, in my opinion. I think $20 90 point kabinett at age 20 is not only better, but far better, than $60 95 point spatlese when young.

Young riesling is a sweet grape beverage which tastes nice, but isn’t really a wine experience to me. And I think they taste very similar to each other when young, too. When the fruit recedes and you have modest sweetness alongside the bony mineral, that’s when it really become a wine experience for me.

And it’s amazing how high your odds are with older riesling. You don’t have to have gotten the perfect producer, bottle and/or vintage to get good results decades down the road. Solid bottles from solid producers seem to have a very high hit rate, at least for me.

But it’s not easy to source mature riesling. I think very little of it makes it to older age, and most of what does is the ultra-sweet dessert style ones that don’t interest me as much. It’s sort of the curse of being a wine that goes down easily at younger ages, so it doesn’t make it to when it becomes really great. It’s a lot easier to lay off your Barolo and Bordeaux until maturity, since it’s not that compelling along the way.

Those are must my opinions, and I think I’m in a smaller minority in it.

I echo all your points! I wish I had a bottomless cellar that I could fill with inexpensive yet immensely delicious Mosel Kabinett.

+1
Though I tend to like Kabinett in the 8 to 10 year range.

[Gerhard_P]

To expect aged Riesling without any petrol is like expecting dry sex …

[Rudi_Finkler]

Very good thread here. I have various German rieslings in the cellar…mainly Kabinett and I am hoping they will continue to age nicely.

They will believe me.
My favorites are older Saar Rieslings of course.

[David_Bu3ker]

Where are you guys finding all these $60 Spatlesen? Are you sure you are not buying GG wines?

It’s hard to pay that much, but Egon Mueller Spatlese runs $90-$150, and Robert Weil’s Kiedricher Grafenberg can set you back $60.

Given the huge number of delicious alternatives, it has been easy for me to walk away from those 2 bottlings with zero regrets.

[Chris_Seiber]

2017 Donnhoff Spatlese Hermannshohle is $60+ nowadays.

But I was just throwing a random number out there.

[J_Rock]

Some Willi Schaefer Spat is at or slightly below $60 I love it, but sometimes it’s hard for me to pull the trigger on that when I can get Schloss Lieser, Fritz Haag, and Markus Molitor for less.

[David_Bu3ker]

2017 Donnhoff Spatlese Hermannshohle is $60+ nowadays.

But I was just throwing a random number out there.

No it’s not. You are getting hosed.

[Chris_Seiber]

2017 Donnhoff Spatlese Hermannshohle is $60+ nowadays.

But I was just throwing a random number out there.

No it’s not. You are getting hosed.

Vinopolis - $59
Knightsbridge - $59
Wine House - $63
K&L - $65
Crush - $65
Wally’s - $75

I’m not claiming somebody might have gotten it at a more favorable price sometime and somewhere, but saying that wine is generally $60+ nowadays is pretty defensible.

[David_Bu3ker]

On release on the east coast it was easily available for $45.

[Robert_Dentice]

2017 Donnhoff Spatlese Hermannshohle is $60+ nowadays.

But I was just throwing a random number out there.

No it’s not. You are getting hosed.

Vinopolis - $59
Knightsbridge - $59
Wine House - $63
K&L - $65
Crush - $65
Wally’s - $75

I’m not claiming somebody might have gotten it at a more favorable price sometime and somewhere, but saying that wine is generally $60+ nowadays is pretty defensible.

I checked and I payed $65 on release from Crush.

[J_Rock]

Wally’s can actually have some decent or even good deals once in awhile, but I feel like they usually take a “show no mercy” approach to pricing.

BTW, Dönnhoff Riesling Spätlese Niederhäuser Hermannshöhle 2018 is only $45 at Woodland Hills Wine Co. Please just buy enough to encourage them to stock more Riesling, but don’t buy take all of the Rieslings before I can get them!

[ChristopherSK]

Main question about putting the 2015 Germans away without touching them? I tend to buy riesling by the case, and if its a younger vintage, and I am having a bottle every two or three months, I wait until I get my first bottle that tells me “shutdown”, and then I put it away for 4 to 5 or more years. Sometimes I get no shutdown, such as some 2013’s I have encountered. But, most of the time I do experience shutdown.

Riesling! I was a 16 year old busboy at the Glockenspiel restaurant just outside of Kutztown PA. We would get to taste the left over wines at the end of the night. Yes, some were just Zeller Swartz Katz which was still tasty, but I remember my first fine riesling and that is what gave me a true love for wine. The “Glock” was a Germanic haven, and sadly it burned down in 1986. GLOCKENSPIEL RESTAURANT FIRE CAUSES $2 MILLION IN DAMAGE POLICE – The Morning Call

[David_Bu3ker]

The prices at Crush have always been close to criminal gouging.

[Sarah_Kirschbaum]

Main question about putting the 2015 Germans away without touching them? I tend to buy riesling by the case, and if its a younger vintage, and I am having a bottle every two or three months, I wait until I get my first bottle that tells me “shutdown”, and then I put it away for 4 to 5 or more years. Sometimes I get no shutdown, such as some 2013’s I have encountered. But, most of the time I do experience shutdown.

Also from Philly area!

We bought pretty heavily in 2015 after tasting extensively and, for the most part, put our cases away, planning to check in after a few years. We’ve dabbled a bit here and there in the last 6 months on wines we have in quantity and feel that they have come along nicely, are not totally shut down, but are still youthful. Most of these are dry. Hope that helps!

[Chris_Seiber]

I bought a couple cases of 2015s to put away. See you in 2030 and beyond if I’m still around.

[J_Rock]

Do you guys think that different VDP classifications (e.g., Gutswein, Grosse Lage, etc.) tend to have different aging patterns or speeds? For example, I’ve been drinking some '15 Schloss Lieser Gutswein recently that is simply a party in my mouth; however, I’ve had some '15 and '16 Willi Schaefer Grosse Lages that seem pretty closed. Do you think this is just coincidence / due to the particular cuvees, or do the higher quality classifications “need” more aging or have a more pronounced muted phase?

[ChristopherSK]

Last night I opened one of my hasn’t shut down yet 2013’s. Two years ago I bought a case of 2013 Reinhold Haart Wintricher Ohligsberg Riesling Spatlese, a Rudi Wiest selection that clocked in at a rather sweet 7%. This Mosel is still not shut down as it showed lush white fruits and paired well with some chicken sausage.
Link to Reinhold Haart. http://www.rudiwiest.com/wp-content/upload/2012/02/2013-estate-stat-sheet-rd3-Reinhold-Haart.pdf

Yo Sarah!

[Alan_Rath]

I bought a couple cases of 2015s to put away. See you in 2030 and beyond if I’m still around.

Far too warm/ripe vintage to age into anything interesting. Sell those, and buy something from a better vintage. I know this is an opinion that will be met with scorn here, but it’s my opinion. Keep a couple and test my theory - you can either toast me or curse me