Pernand Vergelesses

[Howard_Cooper]

Hmmm, that doesn’t sound like the wine I had back in March. My CT note below:

Very well judged ripeness bestows the wine with lovely perfumed red cherry fruit accented with damp forest floor on a foundation of firm but elegant tannins, lifted acidity, and a lingering soft finish. 92+

This note is more in keeping with my experiences of the 2017 in barrel and in bottle.

2017 as a whole, and at Chandon de Briailles in particular, is characterized by moderate ripeness, correct acids and very supple tannins. The fruit is very expressive, but more because of the wines’ open personalities than any kind of exaggerated ripeness or long hang time. The domaine is also using less sulfur than in the past, meaning they are even more expressive young. And extraction is gentler, too, which further emphasizes supple fruit. This cuvée ages very well (we drank the delicious 1959 last year) so I’d just wait a bit longer for more complexity to emerge and the youthful fruit to calm down if you find it too much right now…

It’s interesting to reflect more generally in light of Andrew’s comments, however, that one seldom talked about consequence of making wines in a more and more gentle way, with more whole cluster, shorter macerations, less pigeage, gentler pressing, less new oak, and shorter élevage, is that wines in Burgundy are becoming more and more fruit-driven as a result. In this respect, the concept of gulpable, fruit driven and very lightly structured “glou glou” wines, which emerged out of the natural wine movement, is definitely permeating the Burgundian mainstream and many young producers are drinking wines like this and increasingly making wines like this. In so far as what makes Burgundy taste like “Burgundy” is not just about site influence but also about how the primary fruit is complexified (patinating is the word I am increasingly inclined to use, as I think it describes very well what goes on) in the production process, then you can expect to encounter more and more Burgundies that just taste like fruit and not like “Burgundy” per se. I should emphasized that I don’t think that this applies to the Chandon de Briailles wines, but I can think of more and more wines to which it does. Some consumers will surely appreciate a trend that calls into question exactly what Burgundy is, while others will regret that it is harder to find the sorts of wines that, for them, constituted the region’s appeal.

I have been enjoying the wines from Chandon de Briailles for many years (I think the oldest I have had is 1999). I cannot think of a winery over this time period making wines that taste less like a new world pinot noir and was very puzzled by the OP’s post. I had a 2007 recently that was wonderful. However, I do note that the last time I visited there (in 2016), we were shown around by a winemaker from Australia. I have assumed that he works under the direction of Claude and François de Nicolay but this thread makes me wonder if there has been any change in direction by the winery. I have not tasted a vintage newer than what I tasted there is 2016 and so cannot comment on the 2017s. Are they making wines differently from the way that the wines there have traditionally been made. I hope not as I am a fan of their wines.

[Dan_Samsoe]

This area appears to have some pretty good values. However, the first one I tried yesterday 2017 Chandon de Brailles Pernand-Vergelesse 1er Cru Ile Vergelesses was super jammy and ripe with just a hint of sawdust on the nose. More like a CA Pinot than Burg to me. It did do better with some air time, but the fruit was overwhelming regardless.

I tried it because it got great ratings, but now I’m wondering if that’s not because lots of the typical critics love the bombastic ripe style.

Is that the typical style of this area? Does it just need some bottle age to mellow and show more interesting characteristics?

Was this the “Sans Souffre” version?

[Andrew_K]

Was this the “Sans Souffre” version?

I don’t know? Is that on the bottle somewhere? Unfortunately my bottles are in my offsite.

[James_Billy]

William,

Very interesting, indeed! I don’t suppose you can give some examples of Domaines that have moved to a more ‘glou glou’ (glug, glug!) style? TIA!

I’m a little hesitant to single out anyone without developing my thoughts more completely and explicitly, as the above was intended more as a stimulus to discussion (and to see if anyone else had the same reflection) than a definitive pronouncement, and I wouldn’t want any one producer to feel they were being “picked on”… happy to correspond by PM however!

William,

I understand. Thanks for the invitation to chat via PM, but I’m sure you’re very busy. I really appreciate the thought, though!

[Jay_Miller]

I have been enjoying the wines from Chandon de Briailles for many years (I think the oldest I have had is 1999). I cannot think of a winery over this time period making wines that taste less like a new world pinot noir and was very puzzled by the OP’s post. I had a 2007 recently that was wonderful. However, I do note that the last time I visited there (in 2016), we were shown around by a winemaker from Australia. I have assumed that he works under the direction of Claude and François de Nicolay but this thread makes me wonder if there has been any change in direction by the winery. I have not tasted a vintage newer than what I tasted there is 2016 and so cannot comment on the 2017s. Are they making wines differently from the way that the wines there have traditionally been made. I hope not as I am a fan of their wines.

I’m pretty much in Howard’s camp though I discovered them with the 1998 vintage and have had as far back as 1993. I’d be intellectually disappointed to hear that the style has changed though since I don’t buy new release Burgundy any more it doesn’t affect me personally.

Regarding William’s point one producer which I’ve seen move in style is Fourrier. I loved their wines in the late 90s, early 2000s but stopped buying due to the price increases after 2005. But occasional tastes at recentish events have made me happy that I stopped buying as they struck me as being much more fruit-driven than the elegant beauties I remembered.

[billnanson]

As William notes the approach of the young Turks - and Turkesses - cannot be overlooked.
But Chandon de Briailles other than much, much better housekeeping and more prominent positioning of biodynamics, haven’t changed that much since the start of the 2000s - the former with the aid of Australian, Christian, the latter as usually with mainly whole clusters - there are two additional changes that can’t be overlooked though - the reduction/rejection of in-elevage sulfur (as is the current vogue) and the warmth of recent vintages. Each has an influence but all are related - it’s like iso/shutter speed/aperture though with additional dimensions - but what I’m (and William too, is) saying is that you can’t change one without influencing the others, but particularly I’m sure that the climate has much to do with the young drinkability of the reds of today, as there’s an element of the same in more staid producers too - certainly vs 10-20 years ago…

[Markus_S]

… In so far as what makes Burgundy taste like “Burgundy” is not just about site influence but also about how the primary fruit is complexified (patinating is the word I am increasingly inclined to use, as I think it describes very well what goes on) in the production process, then you can expect to encounter more and more Burgundies that just taste like fruit and not like “Burgundy” per se. I should emphasized that I don’t think that this applies to the Chandon de Briailles wines, but I can think of more and more wines to which it does. Some consumers will surely appreciate a trend that calls into question exactly what Burgundy is, while others will regret that it is harder to find the sorts of wines that, for them, constituted the region’s appeal.

So much for terroir.

[Dan_Samsoe]

Was this the “Sans Souffre” version?

I don’t know? Is that on the bottle somewhere? Unfortunately my bottles are in my offsite.

It is on the label. I have only seen the Sans Souffre-version in a wine shop in Beaune, so it’s probably not available everywhere.

[James_Billy]

Was this the “Sans Souffre” version?

I don’t know? Is that on the bottle somewhere? Unfortunately my bottles are in my offsite.

It is on the label. I have only seen the Sans Souffre-version in a wine shop in Beaune, so it’s probably not available everywhere.

Makes sense as sulphur is more necessary for wines being shipped overseas where who knows what kind of temperatures it’s encountering.

[William_Kelley]

So much for terroir.

Well, at the end of the day, the terroir doesn’t come with instructions as to whether to destem, how much to crush, how often to punch down, how long to macerate, how much new oak to use and from which cooper, etc. The site influence—as modulated by vine / rootstock genetics, viticulture, and harvest date—will express itself in things such as malic-tartaric ratio, thickness of skins, size of berries, degree of maturity, etc; and that will be present in the wine, if its chemistry or concentration are not artificially adjusted, more or less irrespective of the winemaking choices illustrated above.

Now, when actually making wine in Burgundy, for all that I have just said, one does get a sense of what the grapes seem to “want”… but I am not under any illusions that this is anything other than a personal emotion. And different people can arrive at quite different conclusions—even if they share similar aesthetic priorities.

[Steven_Dilley]

Was this the “Sans Souffre” version?

I don’t know? Is that on the bottle somewhere? Unfortunately my bottles are in my offsite.

It is on the label. I have only seen the Sans Souffre-version in a wine shop in Beaune, so it’s probably not available everywhere.

I’m not sure how available it is either, but FYI it is available in Texas.

[wspohn]

That certainly sounds atypical.

My fave at the moment is 2017 Domaine Marius Delarche Pernand-Vergelesses 1er Cru Ile des Vergelesses which is starting to drink well.

[Andrew_K]

Well, I went back to the well.

I got a screaming deal on some 2017 MM PV 1er Les Vergelesses, so I bought the case. Opened one tonight, pop and pour, and it has an intriguing nose with some bright red fruit framed by oak with a hint of sawdust and cedar chip potpourri. Weight is decent and the palate is enjoyable, fresh red fruit, but the finish goes sour/bitter.

Good news is the ripeness is much more toned down than the previous specimen. I think this one could turn out pretty nicely and can’t go wrong for $30. Going to give it the full treatment with more air and more time in the bottle and hope the finish comes around.

[Andrew_K]

dupe.

[emile_bond]

Envoyer just offered Domaine Louis Jadot
Pernand-Vergelesses
“Clos de la Croix de Pierre”
Blanc 2017 for $29.99/btl.

[Ramon_C]

Well, my last bottle was from my at-release purchase of the 2006 Chandon de Briailles Ile de Verselesses 1er. A different vintage from, but also so unlike the original TN in this thread. My 2006 showed nice tart, sour cherries. Some broth, nicely-layered plump, cool red fruit, and a good touch of earthiness. I just love the overall makeup. As old school any Pinot as I’ve had.

[Howard_Cooper]

Well, my last bottle was from my at-release purchase of the 2006 Chandon de Briailles Ile de Verselesses 1er. A different vintage from, but also so unlike the original TN in this thread. My 2006 showed nice tart, sour cherries. Some broth, nicely-layered plump, cool red fruit, and a good touch of earthiness. I just love the overall makeup. As old school any Pinot as I’ve had.

My guess is that when it is 14 years old the 2017 will taste much more like your 2006 than like a new world Pinot. I do note that 2017 does seem like a very user friendly vintage, but I think there is enough stuffing in 2017s to age well like most red Burgs do.

[Howard_Cooper]

So much for terroir.

Well, at the end of the day, the terroir doesn’t come with instructions as to whether to destem, how much to crush, how often to punch down, how long to macerate, how much new oak to use and from which cooper, etc. The site influence—as modulated by vine / rootstock genetics, viticulture, and harvest date—will express itself in things such as malic-tartaric ratio, thickness of skins, size of berries, degree of maturity, etc; and that will be present in the wine, if its chemistry or concentration are not artificially adjusted, more or less irrespective of the winemaking choices illustrated above.

Now, when actually making wine in Burgundy, for all that I have just said, one does get a sense of what the grapes seem to “want”… but I am not under any illusions that this is anything other than a personal emotion. And different people can arrive at quite different conclusions—even if they share similar aesthetic priorities.

Does one usually judge whether a wine shows its terroir at 3 years old or when the wine is mature? Seems like a pretty silly comment by Markus.

[Ramon_C]

Well, my last bottle was from my at-release purchase of the 2006 Chandon de Briailles Ile de Verselesses 1er. A different vintage from, but also so unlike the original TN in this thread. My 2006 showed nice tart, sour cherries. Some broth, nicely-layered plump, cool red fruit, and a good touch of earthiness. I just love the overall makeup. As old school any Pinot as I’ve had.

My guess is that when it is 14 years old the 2017 will taste much more like your 2006 than like a new world Pinot. I do note that 2017 does seem like a very user friendly vintage, but I think there is enough stuffing in 2017s to age well like most red Burgs do.

Even while I enjoyed the 2006 at 14 y o, I’m still sensing better things to come with the remaining 5 bottles that I plan to keep cellared.

[Howard_Cooper]

Well, my last bottle was from my at-release purchase of the 2006 Chandon de Briailles Ile de Verselesses 1er. A different vintage from, but also so unlike the original TN in this thread. My 2006 showed nice tart, sour cherries. Some broth, nicely-layered plump, cool red fruit, and a good touch of earthiness. I just love the overall makeup. As old school any Pinot as I’ve had.

My guess is that when it is 14 years old the 2017 will taste much more like your 2006 than like a new world Pinot. I do note that 2017 does seem like a very user friendly vintage, but I think there is enough stuffing in 2017s to age well like most red Burgs do.

Even while I enjoyed the 2006 at 14 y o, I’m still sensing better things to come with the remaining 5 bottles that I plan to keep cellared.

I still have some 2002s from CdB. My only 2006s from them are Cortons that I am still holding.