Passetoutgrains - who is king or queen?

[Kris_Patten]

Does anyone buy to cellar? If so, what producers, Lignier, Rouget, Trapet, Lafarge, Chevillon?

Who are the top producers you have tried and at what age do you prefer them.

TiA.

[Tom_Blach]

Isn’t it called ‘Coteaux Bourguignons’ now? it used mostly to be borderline undrinkable(pas tres grand mais tres ordinaire was the rubric) though I can think of remarkable exceptions from Laurent, Roty and Ente and a decent one from Prieure-Roch. I imagine that the weather is improving things though I had a real soft spot for the Geantet-Pansiot version, which in the way of Chinese Kaoliang was like drinking barbed wire.

[Otto_Forsberg]

Isn’t it called ‘Coteaux Bourguignons’ now?

You’re confusing it with Bourgogne Grand Ordinaire, which was changed to Coteaux Bourguignons. Coteaux Bourguignons can be single-variety or blended red or white, whereas Passetoutgrains is always red and needs to be a co-fermented blend of at least two grapes (Pinot Noir and Gamay) with other local grapes allowed.

However, IIRC, the appellation borders cover the same area. As Coteaux Bourguignons can be a blend, a Pinot Noir-Gamay blend can be labeled as Passetoutgrains and Coteaux Bourguignons. However, unless Coteaux Bourguignons meets the blend criteria, it can’t be labeled as Passetoutgrains.

[jprusack]

I’ve picked up lignier here and there whenever I see it on the cheap and am always blown away at the quality for the money.

[JimJP]

Vincent makes a good OR version - tried the chevillon version and didn’t particularly care for it

[Kris_Patten]

I’ve picked up lignier here and there whenever I see it on the cheap and am always blown away at the quality for the money.

Have found Lignier to be the roundest,and most Pinot-like, but wondering if that is the point of Passetoutgrains.

[Kris_Patten]

Vincent makes a good OR version - tried the chevillon version and didn’t particularly care for it

Chevillon was a bit too iron driven on palate and lean for me. Really a must to have food with it.

[ybarselah]

Isn’t it called ‘Coteaux Bourguignons’ now?

You’re confusing it with Bourgogne Grand Ordinaire, which was changed to Coteaux Bourguignons. Coteaux Bourguignons can be single-variety or blended red or white, whereas Passetoutgrains is always red and needs to be a co-fermented blend of at least two grapes (Pinot Noir and Gamay) with other local grapes allowed.

However, IIRC, the appellation borders cover the same area. As Coteaux Bourguignons can be a blend, a Pinot Noir-Gamay blend can be labeled as Passetoutgrains and Coteaux Bourguignons. However, unless Coteaux Bourguignons meets the blend criteria, it can’t be labeled as Passetoutgrains.

i’m confused by this as well. Seems Domaine Dureuil-Janthial changed their Passetoutgrains to Coteaux Bourguignons: Coteaux Bourguignons, Dureuil-Janthial - Skurnik Wines & Spirits

for the thread, i think he makes a benchmark … whatever it’s called now.

[Kris_Patten]

Isn’t it called ‘Coteaux Bourguignons’ now?

You’re confusing it with Bourgogne Grand Ordinaire, which was changed to Coteaux Bourguignons. Coteaux Bourguignons can be single-variety or blended red or white, whereas Passetoutgrains is always red and needs to be a co-fermented blend of at least two grapes (Pinot Noir and Gamay) with other local grapes allowed.

However, IIRC, the appellation borders cover the same area. As Coteaux Bourguignons can be a blend, a Pinot Noir-Gamay blend can be labeled as Passetoutgrains and Coteaux Bourguignons. However, unless Coteaux Bourguignons meets the blend criteria, it can’t be labeled as Passetoutgrains.

i’m confused by this as well. Seems Domaine Dureuil-Janthial changed their Passetoutgrains to Coteaux Bourguignons: Coteaux Bourguignons, Dureuil-Janthial - Skurnik Wines & Spirits

for the thread, i think he makes a benchmark … whatever it’s called now.

In this case, Passetoutgrains must be a min. 30% PN and 15% Gamay, and this wine is 90% PN and 10% Gamay, so it can be labeled CB, but not be labeled Passetoutgrains.

Will look to try one regardless, thanks for heads up Yaacov.

[ybarselah]

In this case, Passetoutgrains must be a min. 30% PN and 15% Gamay, and this wine is 90% PN and 10% Gamay, so it can be labeled CB, but not be labeled Passetoutgrains.

Will look to try one regardless, thanks for heads up Yaacov.

in all prior vintages it was labeled Passetoutgrains and the mix was the same. Was the mix requirement changed?

[Chris_Seiber]

Here’s a good thread from a few years ago

https://www.wineberserkers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2459399#p2459399

[Chris_Seiber]

Pahss-too-grah(n) seems to be the pronunciation. I looked it up again and just figured someone else might be curious.

[Kris_Patten]

In this case, Passetoutgrains must be a min. 30% PN and 15% Gamay, and this wine is 90% PN and 10% Gamay, so it can be labeled CB, but not be labeled Passetoutgrains.

Will look to try one regardless, thanks for heads up Yaacov.

in all prior vintages it was labeled Passetoutgrains and the mix was the same. Was the mix requirement changed?

Believe it has been in place since 1930s or 40s.

Paging William Kelley

[ybarselah]

In this case, Passetoutgrains must be a min. 30% PN and 15% Gamay, and this wine is 90% PN and 10% Gamay, so it can be labeled CB, but not be labeled Passetoutgrains.

Will look to try one regardless, thanks for heads up Yaacov.

in all prior vintages it was labeled Passetoutgrains and the mix was the same. Was the mix requirement changed?

Believe it has been in place since 1930s or 40s.

a mystery then… ?

[B_Buzzini]

Pahss-too-grah(n) seems to be the pronunciation. I looked it up again and just figured someone else might be curious.

How to pronounce Bourgogne Passe Tout Grains

I thought…passed out grains!

[Kris_Patten]

Pahss-too-grah(n) seems to be the pronunciation. I looked it up again and just figured someone else might be curious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sdj5vjK8-hM


I thought…passed out grains!

It is in your neck of the woods.

[William_Kelley]

Isn’t it called ‘Coteaux Bourguignons’ now?

You’re confusing it with Bourgogne Grand Ordinaire, which was changed to Coteaux Bourguignons. Coteaux Bourguignons can be single-variety or blended red or white, whereas Passetoutgrains is always red and needs to be a co-fermented blend of at least two grapes (Pinot Noir and Gamay) with other local grapes allowed.

However, IIRC, the appellation borders cover the same area. As Coteaux Bourguignons can be a blend, a Pinot Noir-Gamay blend can be labeled as Passetoutgrains and Coteaux Bourguignons. However, unless Coteaux Bourguignons meets the blend criteria, it can’t be labeled as Passetoutgrains.

i’m confused by this as well. Seems Domaine Dureuil-Janthial changed their Passetoutgrains to Coteaux Bourguignons: Coteaux Bourguignons, Dureuil-Janthial - Skurnik Wines & Spirits

for the thread, i think he makes a benchmark … whatever it’s called now.

I tasted the 2020 Dureuil under the Passetoutgrains moniker a couple of weeks ago!

The Passetoutgrains AOC dates back to 1937 and specifies a minimum of 1/3 Pinot Noir.

Coteaux Bourguignons dates back to 2011 and replaces Bourgogne Grande Ordinaire. There is no minimum percentage of Pinot, so it could be all Gamay.

[ybarselah]

I tasted the 2020 Dureuil under the Passetoutgrains moniker a couple of weeks ago!

well, what’s going on here???

[William_Kelley]

I tasted the 2020 Dureuil under the Passetoutgrains moniker a couple of weeks ago!

well, what’s going on here???

Might be labelled differently for the US market? But no idea.

[Otto_Forsberg]

in all prior vintages it was labeled Passetoutgrains and the mix was the same. Was the mix requirement changed?

Has this been confirmed? Because at only 10% Gamay they shouldn’t be able to label it as Passetoutgrains.

Although it wouldn’t be the first time in France when the actual blend, the indicative blend and the legal requirements didn’t exactly match.