Orange Wine: What Say You?

WINE TALK
21

I like the good ones and dislike the bad ones. Many orange wines are not good.

22

I like Vodopivec’s Vitovska but outside of that and a few other Italians I haven’t tried much. I think I might be drinking a few next week (Jura) so might come back then with a fresher opinion.

23

Not a fan. Interesting on occasion but not desirable. Happy to see the trend fading.

24

Have tasted one, liked it, and purchased a few bottles.

2009 COS Pythos

Do not seek them out, but if I tasted another and liked it, would buy again.

Open to the category, have had a good experience, would buy again, not actively seeking.

25

Had a Gravner with an 11 course tasting menu (all Seafood) at Bartolotta in Vegas a few months ago and I can’t think of another wine that would have matched so well across the different dishes.

26

Huh? [scratch.gif] If anything, I see more-and-more producers trying this out, especially in CA (Cowan, Forlorn Hope, etc… Why even Ravines here in NYS skin fermented chardonnay some to add to their varietal blend).

27

So long as they aren’t oxidized I’m ok with them.

that said, I have one in the works as I was curious. 100% whole cluster, pinot grigio, fermented just like a regular PN.

28

I would suggest adding one:

“I’ll drink a glass, but that’s my fill.”

The novelty wears off on me very quickly (or is that wears on my palate?)

29

My take as well, though you have to be careful with your importer. There’s an awful ot of crap, and they’re sensitive to storage conditions as well.

30

I would always drink a decent Orange wine one over Rose.

But, they are hard to find and if I do have access to a decent orange wine , most likely I will have access to red/white/sherry/sparking as well.

31

Great story on this subject. My friend Heather was in a Costco and they were closing out some wine for $40 per half bottle. When she asked, they told her that they couldn’t sell it because it was orange wine. 2001 D’Yquem. She bought whatever was there, a couple cases I think. We hate her, but we love the story!

32

Gravner Breg is probably my favorite wine with raw oysters.

33

I’m with Todd; enjoy many if they are not oxidized. And even then, one or two are of interest.

I make several including Sauvignon and Ribolla - some things I’ve found:

  • they should be served as you would a red wine; very lightly chilled. As soon as they get colder they aren’t the same wines.
  • they go with almost anything - and most people don’t think that. I avoid red meat but not much else.
  • they age. All those phenolics, why not?
  • they are hard to sell; they are certainly an acquired taste.
    Best, Jim
34

Yup…this guy knows of what he speaks. Serve slightly chilled. They are not much fun to taste, in many cases. But they need food…mostly of a savory kind.

  1. If the skin contact during fermentation is minimal (hrs or a few days), they can still show some varietal content. But prolonged skin contact can (usually) obliterate varietal character (as I recognize it) and gives it a very strong (what I call) phenolic character, that contributes to a certain sameness to the wines.
  2. The wines I mostly prefer are made by no skin-contact (which preserves the varietal character) and then a portion made w/ prolonged skin contact (which gives the phenolic character) and then blended together in some proportion.
  3. I prefer to make a distinction between “orange” wines and skin-contact whites, made in a reductive manner. The “orange” wines, as made in Georgia, and by the Radikon/Gravner paradigm, are made in an oxidative manner, w/ lengthy contact w/ oxygen. The skin-contact whites, as made by Jim/Skerk/etc are put to barrel at the completion of fermentation and then totally raised in a reductive manner. They have much the same phenolic character as “orange” wines, but lack the oxidative character of “orange” wines. That distinction is one that I prefer to make, but is not universally accepted. Some people prefer to label any skin-contact white as an “orange” wine, oxidative or reductive. But I think the two are quite different and prefer to distinguish between the two. But what the heck would I know??
  4. The color, orange or not, is very much a function of the grape variety you’re using. If you’re using (ripe) PinotGris/GWT/Aleatico/Brachetto/etc that have some color content at full ripeness; you’ll get a distinct pink/rose/orange color. If you’re using SauvBlanc/Chard/Tokaji/Ribolla that has little anthocyanin content in the skin, you’ll get a wine w/ little color. Or sometimes not, there’ll be an orange/salmon/copper tinge to the wine.
  5. I find that skin-contact whites are an absolutely fascinating genre. They’re no fun to taste on their own. Some can be pretty funky…especially if made by “natural” winemaking techniques and no SO2. And some can just be weird. And some can just be absolutely delicious…especially w/ savory food to moderate the tannins on the palate. Like Jim…I starting to find some of them age into really interesting stuff.
    Tom
    Nice seeing and drinking w/ you & Diane last week. A really fun event it was.
    Tom
35

One word: meh.

36

Cameron Ramato is also very, very good. Non-oxidized Pinot Gris.

37

What about Friulian skin fermented Pinot Grigio? Radikon’s bottling is very distinctly orange wine in terms of appearance, mouthfeel, and aroma.

To me, there are too many variations to be able to make such distinctions. There will always be examples that blur whatever lines one wants to create. So, I think it’s as simple and effective as possible to put any wines made from “white” grapes (grapes usually used for still white wines) with more than a few hours of maceration in the same category. If you include shorter times, you get into tricky territory with things like Riesling and Albarino that often sit with the skins for a few hours and produce wines that anyone would only call white wines.

38

Are we talking color or origin of fruit or from Orange County CA?

39

I also like Orange wines that are not oxidized. Even the Lucques, a second label for Wind Gap, was interesting because it had some skin contact.

40

Resurrecting an old thread, liking how Tom Hill differentiates these wines.

I am throwing together a tasting and would greatly appreciate any recommendations in the “non-oxidative” category!

It has been tough hunting!