So called Natural wine producers should be divided two groups: those who clean their spaces & equipment and those who don’t. 90% of faulty natty wines are byproduct of pure lazyness and not because it has low amount of so2 or it’s unfiltered.
Do you know this for a fact? I’m not sure that that is true.
Yes, cleanliness in the cellar definitely affects cleanliness in wines. But there are so many other factors during the process in addition to cleanliness that can affect a wine going sideways so to speak or not.
What about topping on a regular basis? What about understanding malo lactic fermentation and making sure things finish before bottling?
You are right. I should have mentioned other mandatory things too starting with clean fruit, toppings, malo, oxygen when racking & ending to bottling. But the main thing was/is that if you skip some of not so glamorous parts of the process due to lazyness it’s very hard to produce clean natural wines. Sure you can be lucky but not concistent.
And I think most of this has to do with a) a lack of understanding of any science in the winemaking process by many and b) those more interested in the dogma of the story than in the actual product.
One thing I have always wanted to ask from ”I let the nature to make my wines” - producers is that what if nature decide to make a bad wine? Are you still going to sell it? Apparently the answer is too often ”yes”.
Again, it’s the story . . . no different than high end ‘traditional’ winemakers discussing the beautiful vineyard, the majestic optical sorters, the purity of 100% new oak, etc . . .
Sulfur in the vineyard is used as a fungicide against fungi that Vinifera cannot fight on its own (mildew and powdery mildew are diseases that didn’t exist in the old world before the 1850s and therfore Vinifera didn’t develop any natural defenses against them).
This is not an option. In a season like 2024 in my area, it was impossible to get any fruit without the use of fungicides, both copper and sulfur.
Sulfur at the winery is used under the form of SO2 which is quite different… SO2 is a antiseptic and and an antioxydant.
Its use has quite an impact in terms of strain of microbes that will ferment the grape juices, even if native microbes are used for fermentations. Hence a drastic impact on aromatics, for the good or the bad…
As an antioxydant, SO2 will also change the way the wine evolves during the elevage.
I, personaly, favor the absence of use of sulfur before bottling if the microbial state of the wine alows it, in order to get a wide aromatic spectrum that I believe to be representative of my terroirs.
This is a belief, not a scientific statement.
I like the direction this thread has taken. I don’t seek out or cellar wine that is aggressively marketed as natural, but if I walk into an unknown bar or cafe and want a glass of wine, I’m thrilled to see a list of natty wines I’m not familiar with. Because the alternative, too often, is a list of competently made but pretty much undrinkable glop from the many large corporations that have bought up so many California producers. An unknown “natural” wine might come with some flaws, but it’s almost certain to have sufficient acidity to make it a refreshing drink. And it will always be interesting.
I met you about 25 years ago at a lunch in Portland. I appreciate and enjoy your wines very much.
So, it sounds like sulfur is ok in the vineyard because you need it to get a crop in (which I respect and is a policy I adhere to as well). It’s also considerably less expensive than Cinnerate or Regalia, which have efficacy against the mildew pressure we have in Oregon (no downy mildew yet).
And SO2 in the cellar is different because it affects the strains of organisms fermenting and therefor the aromatic profile? You don’t think the molecular sulfur in the vineyard restricts the microbial fermenters in the vineyard as well? For those expecting vineyard organisms to do the fermenting, it’s hard for me to see how the effect of sulfur sprayed throughout the growing season isn’t a thousand times more impactful than the addition of a bit of sulfur after malolactic fermentation to insure quality of a finished wine.
Even the addition of SO2 at processing is likely minimal compared to spraying elemental sulfur, not to mention copper, throughout the growing season. Elemental sulfur affects a broad spectrum of microflora and microfauna well beyond powdery and downy mildew, and it seems a bit crazy to malolacticsuggest the limiting of microorganisms in the vineyard doesn’t also affect aromatics.
I don’t think any prudent natural winemaker is opposed to SO2 at bottling (see the RAW criteria). Obviously, there are certain cuvées that bottle sans souffre but I think for the most part, or at least the majority if natural wine I buy, small additions at bottling is cool.
Meh…while Otto has been drinking Eric’s wines for years as natural wines, when I started drinking them there wasn’t any natural wine marketing associated with them. He was identifying individual areas in the Cotes du Rhone and showing me places like Brezeme and Sables(if I remember correctly, this was quite a while back) and I like the wines because they were tasty and in my preferred style.
I like that natural wines are established and what they offer, but I think I’ll follow Groucho’s opinion on clubs.
