Umm…the cost.
Agreed. We loved punk rock because our parents hated it, there was comradery and it led us on a discovery.
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Natural wine has the benefit of offering relatively interesting wines at a relatively low price, at least in California. I’d rather drink a $28 skin contact white blend than another underwhelming $60 Pinot.
I think this is important to remember when interpreting the buying patterns of younger people. For a manageable amount of money you get an interesting sensory experience and a good story. Sounds like a deal to me. I hate mouse. God. I hate it so much. But I tell people this up front and have never been served or sold a mousey wine at a bar or shop when I have said this. Plus, you can tell when the server knows what they’re talking about and when they’re likely to lead you astray. If you aren’t bothered by microbial…diversity…you can sample freely, but if you do, there is help out there to guide you.
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Yes exactly, who would a young person rather drink with or talk about drinking with? Frasier Crane or someone who is not going to make them feel like a philistine for their tastes?
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That is a great post and the essence of what I think the broader wine world can learn from the Natural wine segment.
And just like wine most people move on from punk rock to other forms of music.
I liked punk and early hip hop because I wanted anything that was different than classic rock which was (and still is) omnipresent in my home time. But then I went on to discover so many of forms of music, Jazz, Psych, Brazilian, African, etc. I refined my palate, if you will!
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Often something that is a more interesting match for food as well, as it’s likely to have more complexity than whatever way-too-young wine is on most wine lists.
A thousand times this. If I walk into a random ‘natural’ wine bar I don’t have any higher expectations than if I walk into a ‘conventional’ wine bar. There’s so much uninteresting (to my palate) wine on both sides, and while there can be more ‘volatility’ in the spectrum of natural wines, I’d argue that ‘boring’ is a flaw in so many conventional wines.
I’ve had far more positive experiences than not at natural wine bars, with staff that are happy to guide me, and happy to either steer me away from certain wines or make damn sure I knew what I was getting into before I took the plunge.
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Is there such a thing as a conventional wine bar? I think part of what the Natural Wine movement has done is kept the wine bar alive as a relevant concept.
Well yes! They are everywhere : ) With lots of horrible, horrible wines. But no one posts about them on winebeserkers : )
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I can’t speak to state-side as much anymore, but in the UK and Europe there are. Though obviously tons of hybrid/natural spots as well.
Or what Robert said 
Yeah, I guess there are conventional wine bars here, but they’re pretty much just bars with mostly crap industrial wine. I’d love to see a nice mix, but maybe I’ll have to open it myself.
I think the important part about Natural Wine bars is that they are wine bars, and I find it easy enough to find something drinkable and also get outside of my comfort zone. If I have something that I particularly hate, I’ll send it back and if they won’t take it back, I’ll order something else. That’s the nice thing about Natural Wine, it’s usually pretty cheap and the food at Natural Wine bars is usually pretty good.
I should note that I also like natural wines like Foillard, Descombes, Texier, etc. quite a bit.
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This.
I was at a local market which carries an eclectic selection of natural and natural-adjacent wines (have bottles of Paolo Bea and Frank Cornelissen on the top shelf, but also plenty of more affordable stuff like Pepiere as well). Wine selections is at the back next to the meat and fish counters, so its always chilled and cool back there with no sunlight.
I always like to browse, and yesterday there were a group of four people back there, all clearly under 25, who were excitedly looking through the wines. One of them, clearly having tried a lot of them, kept picking up bottles, saying "this is bomb [for boomers, that means “good”], “this is bomb,” “this tastes like raspberries – also bomb.”
One of them started giggling, and she said, referring to the wine that taste like raspberries, “Hey, that’s $20. Let’s get that.”
And off they went, very happy and going back to conversation that was completely not wine related.
It was actually kind of refreshing listening to people treat wine like a drink to be enjoyed with friends rather than a status symbol to covet, a unicorn to chase, and a commodity to hoard.
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Completely agree. Cult exceptions aside, I think natural wine has done a great job at pricing to market.
The minefield in conventional wines tends to be a set of flaws that for most of the history of wine have not been considered flaws…riper, thicker, boring.
Natty wines are inconsistent, and the smells of mouse pee or nail polish remover are both intense. Lack of interest or personality, or not being refreshing enough to want more than an ounce or two are not as jarring a flaw to most people. Though I have had plenty of ‘well made’ wines that I wouldn’t put in my mouth because I could smell the reek of extraction rolling out of the glass.
I think most of us just have a more intense reaction to “this sucks” wines than “this is ok, but I think I’ll have a beer now” wines, but both actually achieve the same end result.
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When did Pepiere become a “natural wine”? They’re just a traditional producer, and they definitely use sulfites. Sorry, this producer is a fave and has been making great wines for decades before Joe Dressner spawned the natural wine movement. If they’re natty, then 90% of the producers I bought and drank in the 90s are now natty producers.
Also, why is sulfur ok in the vineyard but supposedly not in the cellar? Always wondering about this?
Also, why is spraying a heavy metal like copper ok in the vineyard? Yes, it’s organic but it is still a heavy metal and applying it year after year isn’t geared towards soil health.
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I would say “natural-adjacent” just because Dressner imports it. My point being that the grocery store I was at has a serious selection of wines at all different price points, and it is less about whether Pepiere is natural or not.
I don’t have an opinion either way whether Pepiere or DRC or any other wine can be defined as “natural” or 00.
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I would say that most wine bars in Portland are still mixed or traditional.
There’s some natty ones too, and at Division wines you have an excellent hybrid. But there are lots of good traditional wines.
Shockingly, there are wines made in the vast gap between natty and manufactured.
Seeing Pepiere and Texier now included as “natural” rather than low impact/low intervention just drives home the point that the line between natty and traditional has become more blurred than ever.
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Cool. I wasn’t looking for you to define natural or how DRC or Pepiere would be natural. I was more surprised to see Pepiere included in the list carried by a natural wine store.
Your term natural-adjacent seems pretty perfect though, and I am going to add that to my lexicon as it seems like an extremely useful term for defining a lot of my favorite producers.
I think Pepiere was carried because they are part of the LDM book.
The place I was referring to is a small, SF grocery store chain (not Bi-Rite), and I’m guessing whoever is the wine buyer there has a strong relationship with Farm Wine Imports, which is the local distributor. They carry a lot of the natty LDM wines (also a lot of other natty producers from other books).
What’s not ‘natural’ ?
What did the Romans ever do for us. 