Hello,
Everyone is interest in Old Madeira wines?
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We definitely are!
Did you come across a collection or have some to sell?? 
I am interested and buy it when I can find good stuff. Much more interesting than another $250+ Napa cab, which I have enough of. Right now, I have an 1875 Barbeito and a 1908 d’Oliveras. I also have about 3 ounces left of a 1922 d’Oliveras that I opened 14 years ago for my mother’s 90th Birthday that got lost at the back of a cabinet as I hoped she would reach 100 years old (she did not) and that I just found last week. I will taste it in November when I get clearance that a stomach issue has completely healed. I have had them as far back as 1840 Sercial (at that place in Tampa that we are not allowed to talk about), which I did not like because it reminded me of sulfuric acid. I once tried to buy one from the 170s at auction, but the bid went through the roof and it sold for three times my top bid.
Why do I like them?
- I have a sweet tooth
- They are extremely complex
- There is just so much Saxum and SQN etc. that you can drink
- There s something special about drinking a wine where the grapes were picked when Grant was President.
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I find that Madeiras and vintage ports are perfect in the shack while ice fishing. Strong enough to forget about the cold, complex enough to wow a cheap beer drinker.
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Well, I am sure the answer to the initial question is NO; not everyone is interested, but surely enough people out (t)here.
Not sure what you intend to ask, but just go for it…is it about the quality, longevity, availability, exploding pricing…give us an idea and you’ll for sure receive an appropriate answer.
Cheers
oh you’ll like it here
https://www.fortheloveofport.com/ftlopforum/viewforum.php?f=2
Yes.
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I like Madeira, especially with age, but it’s not part of my regular rotation.
I’m doing an OL (details in the forum) to clear some older wines out of my cellar. As I now rarely drink dessert wines, there will be quite a few.
I have one Madeira among 60 and 100 year old Tokajis, d’Yquem and Maximin Grunhaus TBA, but I am far from sure how it will show, because I am far from sure of what it is.
I know it’s Madeira, because the back label says so. It also says Justino’s. I don’t know the vintage, for obvious reasons.
I have this ones and not know where is the best place to find potential collectors and buyers for them. Please see image.
The only ones of interest are “1920 Borges” and “1957 Old wine”. In my opinion you can expect (if anybody is interested at all) to receive EUR 250+150.
The rest is minor quality; the 1915 Solera V and S could be looked for by people chasing for “years” (maybe someone would pay 100 per bottle).
You should post where these wines are lying (my guess is Portugal) and how they been stored and then quickly move your post into Commerce Corner.
For me the Madeira wine is more a wine of time than of viticulture or enology… the best Madeira wines depends of the producing houses and there will not be a great disparity in quality between the houses because the knowledge is common to all companies and each of the companies have very old stocks with exceptional quality and we can mix young and old wines and make a fantastic wine… On solera we have minumum 5 years on cask and then we can only anually bottle 10% of the cask and those wines have consistent style and flavor profile so we have a complex product and rich wines but the final product may lack the unique character of a specific vintage but the quality is ensured…
Conclusion Best Choice: It depends on what you’re looking for in a wine. If you prefer a consistent and approachable style, the solera system might be best. If you’re looking for complexity and unique character, the canteiro method is likely more appealing.
Overall, both methods produce high-quality Madeira wines, but they attend to different preferences and styles. Many wine enthusiasts appreciate both for their unique attributes.
To my understanding, no Solera systems are used in Madeira and they are not even allowed anymore. There used to be a few back in the day, but I think even the youngest bottlings are many decades old and most bottles are about a century old. You are lucky to get your hands on an old bottle of Solera Madeira.
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Did i nail it or what
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Soleras are still legal, but the effort and government hassle keeps producers from starting new ones. Borges bottled the last of a 1940 doce about 15 years ago, the most recent bottling I know of.
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Does this mean that any bottle of solera Madeira is 15+ yrs old, with most being much older?
Indeed, I had to look up how the things were, because I remembered reading / hearing how the Solera systems in Madeira were outlawed when Portugal joined the EU in the mid-1980’s.
Well, it seems the traditional Solera system was outlawed, ie. the system one could fill and bottle from quite freely and market it with the oldest vintage year only. This was the part I remembered.
However, I had missed out the part that Solera is technically allowed in Madeira, as long as it is made according to the new regulations: You can fill only up to 10% from the oldest barrel and you can replenish and bottle from the Solera system only up to ten times. After the 10th bottling you need to wrap the whole Solera system up and bottle the remaining wines in the Solera system at one go. As you said, it’s quite a hassle and I think no producer has made the effort to make a new Solera system according to the EU regulations.
So technically Soleras are still legal, but in practice they are pretty much outlawed today, since the regulations keep the producers from setting one up. However, from what I’ve understood, most producers had already given up on Solera systems long before Portugal joined the EU - I guess Borges was an outlier in this regard. Perhaps those extant Solera systems were grandfathered in so that they could be still bottled (but perhaps not replenished) when the new laws came into effect?
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Yes for the canteiro the government guidelines are as well higher and they promote its use among high end producers…
Other reason, producers and consumers may favor the canteiro method for its ability to showcase specific vintages and terroir and offcourse the oxidative aging results gives richer and more nuanced wines that many connoisseurs apreciate.
It was the EU regulation in 2013… They want Producers now can only draw from the oldest barrel up to 10% and can only replenish and bottle from the solera system a maximum of ten times before the entire system must be bottled at once so these restrictions make it impractical for most producers to maintain a traditional solera system. The need to wrap up and bottle the remaining wines after ten bottlings can be a significant logistical challenge, discouraging producers from setting up new solera systems altogether.
Legacy Systems:
Some existing solera systems that were established before the regulations were likely “grandfathered” in, allowing producers to continue bottling from them without fully adhering to the new rules. This means that older systems may still be operational, but they are not being replenished in the traditional manner.
Shift in Practices:
Many producers had already moved away from the solera method prior to Portugal’s EU accession in 1986, as market demands and changing production practices shifted towards more standardized aging methods. Borges, as you noted, has been one of the few producers to maintain a solera system into the modern era.
Current Landscape:
As a result of these regulations and market dynamics, most Madeira producers have adapted to alternative aging methods, focusing on more straightforward vintage wines or other blending techniques that align better with compliance requirements.
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I love Madeira and drink a fair amount of it. I personally never touch solera wines because it’s impossible to know how much of the stated year is actually in the bottle. It could say “1850 Solera” and there’s literally a thimbleful of the 1850 in it. No thank you. I stick with true vintage dated, or with a generally age statement such as “40 years old” because the youngest wine in the blend has to be at least 40 years old.