I didn’t claim anything else. For myself I remain sad to have lost the inclination to overindulge. Appetite, no matter for what, seems to me the very essence of life.
Broken record alert… I still think near beers and NA cocktails are contrary to the spirit of a dry January. If you are going to go without alcohol, go without alcohol and alcohol substitute crutches. I know this is not a universally shared opinion, I have no fear being an outlier 
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That deep sleep number is the stuff of my dreams.
At a friend’s house I tried diet soda when I was 7 and felt dizzy. This was before the cyclamates recall.
Same friend’s family smoked so he got some cigarettes. Smoked one didn’t really like it. Friend pulls out raw tomatoes says we have to eat these to cover the smell. I couldn’t stand tomatoes, end of tobacco smoking until late teens.
Friends family also rode horses so I would go with them. My friend says let’s get some coffee. He doctors it up with loads of sugar and cream. I didn’t dink coffee until a decade later and now drink it black, maybe cream.
I’m with you. I don’t mind NA beers and they taste good (never tried NA wine), but majority of the time, if I’m putting empty calories inside me there’s gotta be some ABV involved!
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No gin and tonic?
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I am not looking for anything that reminds my of alcohol in any way, but water gets pretty freakin’ boring.
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You caught me! Fever Tree is not very carbonated, and I drink it with plenty of ice. I still don’t care for the bubbly part. I’ve grown somewhat more tolerant since I started drinking champagne.
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So a few observations on the combo of Dry January with a PSMF.
First, the diet is actually easy. Boring, not satisfying sensorily, but not hard. No intense hunger to speak of.
Second, cutting out wine has never been easier. I desire wine to go with my meals, and that’s the only reaon going dry is hard. When meals are this small and boring, I don’t even want wine. So that’s a plus.
But that’s the only plus. This was an experiement for me, to see if an extreme calorie restriction in the short term bought me a noticeable extra fat loss, which would jumpstart to longer term cut. It hasn’t. I’m on Day 6, and my weight loss so far is only slightly ahead of previous years, when my deficit was much lower.
So far, my weight lifting has not suffered. Really no changes required to my volume or weight over this admittedly short period. I haven’t done any high intensity cardio at all.
Overall, I’m disappointed, but I learned something. Anyone considering this protocol who is already lean, but looking for benefits similar to what I was looking for might leave this one alone. That said, anyone who finds cutting out the wine from a pleasure perspective, changing your diet to something totally boring is huge help!
Think I might transition to a smaller, but still significant calorie deficit around 800-1000 k/cal for the next 2 weeks, keeping protein very high and carbs low. Something closer to what Michael is doing.
This being my 6th Dryuary (lol autocorrect suggested “Dreary”), cutting out wine has never been easier. I was already used to the idea that this is what I do in January.
But, truth be told, I went through some very stressful personal challenges in 2025, where turning to alcohol would have been a huge mistake. Keeping January dry is good for my mental health.
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I think PSMF is either best done long term for obese people or short term for lean people that want to cut for a specific event, coupled with much more water management than you’re doing. In that context it’s best suited for aesthetic transformations as opposed to any sort of long term benefits.
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Totally hear you. We are happy drinkers. Tragedies and challenges make us NOT want to drink.
Live and learn. I enjoy experimenting on myself, since really what works on my body is what’s important to me, save for intellectual reasons.
Shouldn’t this be in Asylum? 
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Haha! Per the OP… 
quote=“Patrick_Taylor, post:1, topic:343410”]
We can also use this thread to discuss other behavior/dietary mods, e.g., intermittent fasting, exercise, eliminating refined carbs, starting a workout routine…
[/quote]
I wonder if in the absence of a glp-1/gip that you’d get significant gluconeogenesis. Did you check your ketone levels? The only reason I use retr during keto is to block gluconeogenesis, it’s definitely not to suppress hunger.
Yes, I think I mentioned this in another post, either up thread or in the weightlifting thread. I am pretty sure there is significant gluconeogensis going on. My ketones have ranged from 0.2 to 0.5, so present, but low.
I feel that way about fake meat:
Impossible meat, vegan cheese, etc. Why bother trying to make fake versions of food one eschews?
Yeah you probably need to add a glp-1 for it to be really effective.
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This is interesting. I agree that appetite is the essence of life. It’s a key motivation.
But not sure where or why your wires would connect appetite to OVERindulging. You can have a voracious appetite for each meal, drink, concert, etc, but also know when the party is over.
I think we all know the answer to that. As someone who doesn’t eat meat, of course I agree and I have no desire for a soy patty to be wrangled into tasting like a dead cow. But, they are clearly trying to reach a broader market. Different products for different people!