Are there any winemakers out there that make new barrel and older barrel versions of the same wine? It might be interesting if a producer like Bouchard for example could produce the plentiful Beaune l’nfant Jesus in these two distinct styles to satisfy this polarizing issue among us Burgophiles.
Bedrock did 2008 Hudson Syrah 3 ways, not exactly same wine since the neutral oak version was also 80% whole cluster, but still an interesting and educational experience:
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Just had the Matosevic (Croatia) Malvasia Alba and Alba Barrique. The Alba was '08 and the Alba Barrique was '07, but both are excellent wines. I had a strong preference for the non barriqued Alba which had great cut and minerality. The Barrique was a bit oaky and showed less precision.
The Wagners (of Caymus fame) bottle 2 different Mer Soleil Chardonnays. Their regular (oak), which in the past could double for movie theatre popcorn topping, and the Silver (ss), which I haven’t had.
Huber bottles two Santa Rita Hills Chardonnays, one from oak barrels of three years or less and one from nuetral- older than three years- oak barrels. In 2009 we made some of our Chardonnay in stainless steel drums and some in nuetral oak barrels. Both were Sur Lees.
think boony doon just did this with the le cigare volant for their club members. Actually they did 3 versions - normal barrels, 500 liter barrels, and 10,000 liter wood tanks. While all wood, I’m sure the variation will be pretty interesting.
We did this with the 07 Kimberly’s Syrah. 7 barrels- all older oak- 24 months. 3 barrels 33% new- 32months.
Alpha Omega does and oaked and unoaked chard.
I’m lazurusing this thread to ask the same question. Anything come to mind?
Petit Clergeot Chevry Champagne is available vinified in Fut and Inox. Everything else is the same.
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A number of Brunello producers make a bottling in botte and another in barriques, for example the Casanova di Neri white label and Tenuta Nuova.
Feltina makes its CCR and Fontalloro.
But those aren’t the exact same wine or almost exact same wine other than the barrel part. They can give you a reasonable sense of the difference.
It’s pretty rare to find the EXACT same wine produced and bottled using different vessels. There are usually going to be differences in fermentation, aging, and possibly even grape sources . . .
Cheers
Failla does a “regular” and a concrete “big egg” Olivet chardonnay that I used for my WSET. I think Williams Selyem does something similar too
I believe foresight did a Pinot noir where one was zero oak and one wasn’t. They were the same vineyard but not sure if the same wine.
Keating, did the oak series which was same wine with four (?) different oak treatments. But they are no longer in business so that doesn’t help.
This is a great question.
You can approach this experience when tasting in a cellar by asking to taste an aging wine from a new barrel and an older one. Once you do this a few times it will fix the new wood notes in your mind.
Isn’t this a flawed proposition? You are saying a winery should decide “hey, this wine would do great on oak, but we will produce a wine that we don’t think will be as good, just for academic interest”?
I’d like to think most winemakers will use oak as a tool to make the wine show as intended based on the material they have. Perhaps some material doesn’t need oak, and some does.
But for a winemaker to say “this would be better with oak, but I choose not to use it” seems counterintuitive?
We did this again in 2023. Same fruit harvested the same day but three very different winemaking paths- 90% whole-cluster and no new oak, 50% cluster with 9% Viognier cofermented and 40% new oak, and one completely destemmed with 100% new oak. Not a perfect A/B test given the cluster and Viognier but pretty close. Hopefully it is a cool exercise for folks so they can see what informs our decision making in the winery. Cheers!
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I’m not sure how things are since Penfolds don’t officially disclose much, but isn’t St. Henri the same wine as Grange, only aged in old, neutral foudres instead of new barriques?
Whatever the case, I still love St. Henri a lot more.
I like St Henri a lot too. I had a bottle of 1995 recently which was terrific.
I wouldn’t guess they are the same other than barrels given the 5x difference in price but it does at least give a contrast between oak influences.