not that i condone bad behavior of any kind but trying to put people on mars and serving ants for dining spectacle are leagues apart. i think what happens in kitchens is more similar to other creative industries with questionable economics; ie super labor intensive with ever shrinking margins and limited audience. think design, architecture, fashion, etc.
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Meaning chefs/creatives are under more pressure? Or the conditions for their employees are more precarious? Environments where personalized ‘status’ and ‘recommendations’ play an outsized role are certainly prone to abuse.
well if it is difficult to justify the value of what one does beyond an insular world comprised of others doing similar things, i would imagine everyone involved in such an endeavor is in a precarious position. i am not sure which way the arrow of causality points and i doubt tweezering a plate on the line is more pressure than working in the emergency room but there does seem to be some commonality in poor working conditions being ‘industry norms’ among the fields which i referenced.
I think the “stakes” in the endeavor aren’t what really lead to the abuse. It probably has more to do with the amount of stress and expectation that comes with the job (while messing up a dish won’t result in the end of the world, is does put a lot of other people on the team under a lot of pressure, and when people are stressed, they are not going to be at their best mentally and emotionally).
Abuse happens in a lot of different settings where success or failure of a project depends on the performance of every team member (I’ve been on political campaigns, where yelling and verbal abuse are common because everyone is under a lot of stress and there is a very clear benchmark of failure).
Despite all of this, it doesn’t excuse physical violence and inflicting debilitating psychological trauma on your workers. Generally, I’ve worked in hard work environments, but I normally left better than when I entered into the job. Similarly, I know people who worked for Elon, and while he was difficult and can be a downright jerk, none of them describe being emotionally traumatized like these former Noma interns are. (not excusing his politics and his other toxic beliefs; just talking about him as an employer)
I struggle to imagine any level of physical violence in a professional kitchen is “acceptable.”
Also, this news development hit on pet peeve of mine: the wild overuse of the term “PTSD.” A PTSD diagnosis requires far more than most people think. For starters, it requires exposure to actual or threatened death, serious injury, or sexual violence. And that’s not all …
This is what it takes to be legitimately diagnosed with PTSD
I say this not to minimize the physical, emotional, and probable internal injuries this Noma employee has suffered, but rather to educate people on what PTSD actually is, and what it is not.
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I don’t think the Noma employee was being figurative. It sounds like a health care professional actually diagnosed them with literal PTSD because of the physical and emotional violence suffered during their work experience there.
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That may very well be the case. I’ve seen countless medical professionals incorrectly diagnose PTSD, apart from the barrage of incorrect self-diagnoses. I guess “serious injury” is a gray zone, but it’s bookended by “actual or threatened death” and “sexual violence,” so – for me – those bookends give useful guidance as to what might be considered “serious.”
Not to pick the flyshit out of the pepper, but Denmark has its own definition.
LOL! … laughter aside, I’m actually curious about that …
ETA: interesting … Denmark has chosen to adopt the broader definition of PTSD promulgated by the ICD-11, as opposed to the more narrow version within DSM-V.
Regardless of the definition of PTSD, I think we all agree you shouldn’t punch someone in the ribs for lowering the volume of music at a workplace.
Or stab them in the leg with a fork, laugh at someone who burned their face in the workplace and not give them prompt medical care, etc..
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100%. I don’t take many straight Psyche claims these days, but I’d take that one in a heartbeat!
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https://www.reddit.com/r/finedining/s/MOuWRxGLLn
Funny how this came across my reddit feed today about Noma’s controversy and staff abuse.
this was the original reddit thread where this initially blew up:
https://www.reddit.com/r/finedining/comments/1qzxzs8/noma_will_anyone_listen_now/
Most of the main reporting is on Instagram under Jason White’s Instagram account, though it looks like some other former Noma employees are also speaking out. See the stories for:
Lisa Lind Dunbar: https://www.instagram.com/lisalinddunbar/?hl=en
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wow
It is really picking up momentum! Some disturbing stories. Curious how it’ll affect the actual event.
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I freely admit I’m very jaded, but I’d guess not at all - I doubt that even 1% of reservation holders will cancel and there is a massive waitlist of people dying to go.
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It sounds like people are working with journalists to get the stories out. I saw a post from Jason White that someone from 60 Minutes reached out to him.
We’ll see once the fact checking is done whether formal news outlets publish pieces about this. If it becomes a tsunami of articles, the reputational damage may be too much for the pop up to continue.
Also saw Kenji Lopez Alt posting about this now, so it definitely is getting bigger. But, we will see.
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zero chance that happens.
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Well, there needs to be fact checking and people need to come forward. If people go on the record and these allegations are true…
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The pop up allegedly sold out in three minutes. Noma has already made their money, so patrons will have to decide whether they want to lose their payment to make a point. Maybe there will be a few protesters, but that would be about the extent of it.
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