I bought a corny keg system to make it easier to store topping wine. Which is a better choice to use to keep the wine protected from oxygen?
One other question - I got a lot of the heavy less in the keg because my pump broke and I ended up pouring the wine at the bottom into the keg. How long can it be in contact before it causes a problem?
Well, I think Argon is heavier, so I guess it would be better, but I’ve used both Argon and Nitrogen, and I haven’t noticed any difference between the two for topping kegs. But depending on where you are, one may be significantly cheaper. Down here in SoCal, Nitrogen is cheaper, but friends in SloCal tell me Argon is cheaper there.
The wine in the keg, what is it (vintage, varietal, pre/post ML)? Do you think the lees are sound?
As for question one it will matter more on how often you will open and flush the headspace than the gas choice will be…
OK, thanks. The info the system came with said nitrogen won’t protect the wine, so that’s why I asked. The guys at MoreWine in concord steered me to nitrogen, so I was about to strangle them.
It’s a 2011 Pinot noir from Santa Cruz pre ML. After pressing I had to store it in a variable colume SS tank, my barrel hadn’t arrived yet. I think it’s pretty clean less (huge guess). My pump is working again, so I think I’ll just let it settle and rack it out of the keg, clean the keg and put it back it.
Hey Gary, do I need to do this regularly? I filled the keg to 15PSI and then kept the release valve open for 30sec to flush out the oxygen. Will that work? I am maintaining it at a constant 15 PSI
Nitrogen is much more soluble in wine than argon (just as CO2 is much more soluble than Nitrogen). Just means that if you use nitrogen you’ll end up with somewhat fizzy topping wine. If the keg isn’t very full, I might go with a longer flush out time.
Not sure of the specifics on how this keg works but if you think it has swept the headspace then you are good. What I used to do in another system is cycle inert gas with slight vacuum with the last step being inert gas…Gary
The solubility rankings of gases in aqueous system at 15C is CO2 >> Ar > O2 > N2. Use of the wine for topping should not have an affect on the bulk wine in terms of fizziness.
We use nitrogen (and argon), and have never had fizziness issues. Nitrogen (if bubbled through the wine) is actually used to reduce DO.
We gas our topping bbls/kegs once a week and have never had anything go bad.
Gary, Thanks for the clarification. I had been given some bad information - a number of times. One question, does the mass of the gas make a difference (Ar has a much higher mass than N2)?
Linda, what pressure do you hold in the kegs? We’re usually somewhere around 15 psi, and I’ve heard (once again no personal experience) at that pressure you will get nitrogen into the liquid.
We don’t have gauges on our kegs. ![[oops.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/1/1f129ddad071ffe5db6c99817c3cab666035a70a.gif "oops"){kind=small}
Rick, I hold at 15psi with no problems. If there is any spritz in the wine, which I don’t really pick up, it would go away when topping.
You’ll be fine. We had to do something simar last year, and it was fine.
Yes in a way but it’s the MW in grams/mole is the determining factor when gases occupy the same volume at the same temperature and pressure. By gas law this means that one mole of gas A and gas B occupy the same volume dimensions and that only their MW makes a difference. This leads to a specific gravity difference which makes Argon heavier than Air…Gary
If you displace the wine from a full, sealed keg, then it doesn’t matter. Both Argon and Nitrogen is inert and there isn’t any O2 in the system. If you are flushing a partly filled keg with gas then closing it off, the gas mixes with the O2 so you have to flush the space with a much larger volume of gas to dilute the O2. I’m not sure that using a heavier gas is going to help much as the gas is mixing, not layering, at least when using a standard regulator gas apparatus. As for storage pressure, I can’t see any benefit of pressurizing to 15 psi.
Its this system http://morewinemaking.com/view_product/11034//Cornelius_Keg_Barrel_Top_Up_System
Sounds like I am in good shape, thank you for all of your help and guidance!
awesome, that is what I needed to hear. thank you.
Great to hear, I got less than I had hoped, so what little topping wine I have is precious. thank you a ton for replying to this thread and sharing your knowledge and insights!
I’m doing the latter, so sounds like I need to run the flush for longer than I have. thank you!
If you are using this setup to top a barrel, you could have filled it first before the barrel. Then hook up the Nitrogen gas and top the barrel. Then the entire head space is gas and no need to worry about O2 exposure
Ah, that is what I should have done. The user guide tried to explain something similar, but your explanation makes sense. Thank you!