New VDP Classification System in Germany

WINE TALK
21

Christian, in a nutshell: most of your nutshell is incorrect.

  1. As said before in this thread. Some German wine growing regions have opted for a three-tier-system: e.g. Rheinhessen, Mittelrhein, Mosel. So it’s a four tier system in some regions and a three-tier-sytem in others.

  2. Not printing a vineyard on the label if it’s not a “Große Lage” or “Erste Lage” is optional and will be determined by the regions themselves. So it could well be that some regions will also allow printing a vineyard on the label even if it’s not a “Große Lage” or “Erste Lage”. In addition, since the VDP members determine the “Große Lage” or “Erste Lage” vineyards themselves, it’s pretty obvious what will happen.

  3. The Praedikate were never an indicator of quality. They were an indicator of minimum Oechsle level. I admit though that it was perceived by the public for a long time that higher Oechsles mean higher quality. But there are no changes with regard to the meaning of the Praedikat levels. They mean the same as before - Oechsle level.

  4. The description “feinherb” was never an official one. “Halbtrocken” was and is. But it has not become redundant. While the VDP resolved that it’s mandatory to print “trocken” on a wine if it’s legally dry, writing “halbtrocken” on the label is optional (you can just leave it out).

22

I can only wonder: How many PhD theses will this create?

23

Embrace diversity… dry wines are best [paraphrased].

Nice!

This is called cognitive dissonance.

Having said that, it’s hard to disagree with the fact that the categories coming out of the 1971 Pradikat system are highly flawed.

24

Steven’s replies are excellent. Although I agree with most of Bill’s points, I’m a little more skeptical than he is of the VDP’s classification system. Nevertheless, the 1971 Prädikat system is inadequate.

25

the best thing to come out of the 1971 wine law is the Nahe.

26

I agree that the 1971 wine law is inadequate. I also think that the VDP classification has some good aspects to it. The creation of the “Große Gewächse” category for dry wines from the best vineyards is generally a good thing for example, regardless of whether one likes the style or not. It’s narrower than the Alsace Grand Cru system (in that the wines have to be legally dry) and similar to the Grand Cru category in Burgundy. With the presentation of the “Große Gewächse” in Wiesbaden and Berlin in September, the VDP has managed to create a good marketing scheme and I feel like - at least in Germany - in some upscale restaurants and also by consumers, the Große Gewächse are widely accepted and appreciated.

Further, I think that it’s generally ok to have estate wines and village wines below the Große Gewächse or - where there’s a four tier system - below the Große Gewächse and the wines from the “Erste Lagen”.

The problem really is that - as said above - the VDP regional chapters determine themselves which vineyards are deemed worthy to produce a Großes Gewächs (Große Lage) or a wine from an Erste Lage.

And one thing I don’t understand at all is the complete abandonment of restrictions on chaptalisation for dry wines as practiced by the VDP. After all, the VDP is named “Verband deutscher Prädikatsweingüter” and is the successor to the “Verband deutscher Naturweinversteigerer” founded in 1910. Why was it named “Verband deutscher Naturweinversteigerer”? Because its members wanted to promote their wines, the most important aspect of quality of which was that they’re not chaptalized (see here for the history of the VDP: http://www.vdp.de/en/association/history/national-history/).

Even though the VDP requires its members to have at least Spätlese Oechsle levels for its dry wines from Große and Erste Lagen, there are no restrictions on chaptalizing anymore. None, zero, not for the Große Gewächse nor for dry wines from Erste Lagen nor for the Ortsweine and the Gutsweine. While before, you could somehow assess a style and be sure that the wine was not chaptalized when it was labelled “Kabinett trocken”, now all you can do is trust the producer that it did not chaptalize. I really think that - given the history of the VDP - this is a disgrace. Not that I suspect that the top producers chaptalize their Große Gewächse and not that I think that chaptalizing is generally devil’s work. But I do wonder why the VDP does not restrict chaptalizing.

Their new system promotes the uniformity of styles in dry wines. Look at current VDP estate wines. They pretty much all come in at in between 12 and 13% Vol. alcohol, year in year out. On the other hand, you have Kabinett trockens or sometimes even Spätlese trockens with alcohol levels well under 12% Vol. alcohol. I recently had two absolutely marvellous dry Kabinetts from 2004: Dr. Thanisch - Erben Thanisch - Bernkasteler Doctor and Holger Dütsch Neuweierer Altenberg, the first at 10.5% Vol., the second at 11.5% Vol. You sometimes even see dry Kabinetts at under 10% Vol. alcohol. Not that low alcohol is necessarily and for itself desirable. But I just like that style - not just in off-dry, also in dry - light, weightless, rooted in where they come from, delicate and delicious. The new VDP system, abandoning Kabinett trocken wines from classified vineyards (except for some exceptions), is trying to promote not a style of origin, but a style of producer-specificity and “mini Großes Gewächs” wines. Therefore, at least on the lower two levels of the pyramdid, I think they are less “terroir-based” than before. And this eliminates a shade of grey that I’ll certainly miss and which will drive me to non-VDP members who still have respect for “Kabinett trocken” as category and wine-style.

27

I buy more German wine than anything else, but can’t get even slightly excited about this.

28

+1

I am very glad to see this articulated, that “weightless, rooted in where they come from, delicate and delicious” style is exactly what I like. I don’t follow German wines like I do some other things, but have wondered why I do not care as much for my favorite since this system went into effect (Zilliken Saarburger Rausch Kabinett) and this discussion has helped me understand better.

29

Steven,

I almost agree that the Grosses Gewacs is a good creation. I would agree if two thing were to happen:

  1. Someone other than the parties iwth a vested interest decide what truly are GG eligible vineyards (you address this above)
  2. If the classificaiton is supposed ot be for dry wines then make them actually dry. Lower the RS bar to 4 g/l or something like that. 9 g/l is too high. As Gerhard mentioned it is easily tasteable as not being dry.

I guess what I am saying is that they need to have the guts to do it right, not to just create some complicated framework to protect the status quo of some influential producers.

30

StevenB, my “nutshell” is very useful: it is the broad picture. I am a member of the German Wine Society (Washington DC Chapter) and a member of the Weinfreundeskreis Hochheim (Rheingau). I can assure you that almost nobody in the Washington DC group and very few in the Hochheim group could talk with you about the new VDP classification. To educate lovers of German wine, you have to start with the broad picture and then move on to the exceptions. And I am sure there will be many exceptions and you are refering to some of them. Potentially, the VDP system can turn out to become a huge mess.

Second, VDP members are now free to chaptalise their dry wines up to the highest level and they do. I think this is a very important aspect of the new VDP classification. At the same time, all German winemakers had always the option and still have to add sterilyzed juice after fermentation to their fruity-sweet wines up to the highest quality level and they do. So, drinking a Spaetlese, Auslese, you could never be sure that the winemaker had not added juice after the fermentation, at least for fine tuning.

31

Christian,

Are you implying that the large number of top producers who publicly eschew suesreserve are in fact actually using it?

32

I would actually say that the issue of chaptalization is pretty moot in this age for GGs. It is absolutely no problem to get to 85+ Oechsle (11,4% alc.) from a ‘Grand Cru’ vineyard and I don’t know of any VDP-Pfälzers (or those from Baden or Rheinhessen or even the Rheingau) who chaptalize GGs. Does this happen in other more northern Weinbaugebiete? I don’t know.

As for GG residual sugar: setting the bar lower (like 4 g/l) would in some vintages, exclude spontaneous fermented wines from GG-status, many of which toe that line and come in around 5 or 6. Doing that would certainly restrict the yeasts used for fermentation to the commercial variety (or require temperature-control and additives), and many producers feel that their native yeast populations are almost as much a function of terroir as the soil itself, not to mention favoring less-intrusive cellar practices. As it stands, I like the vintage and stylistic diversity that a little room provides in that 0-10 g/l range, which is still pretty dry especially when the higher acidity of some German Riesling is accounted for.

These days too, most German Riesling producers are striving for 12-13% alc. by vol. (and can label any of these 12,5%). The trick is to achieve the maximum physiological ripeness before the Oechsle creeps too high and many producers are turning to radical vineyard-management techniques and even Organic/Biodynamic measures to help to achieve this.

Good discussion!
Cheers,
Bill

33

This seems like a terrible idea. They say they want to focus on terroir, but they then say that only the terroirs they choose can be labelled specifically.

34

Yes indeed, what’s the problem with the lieu-dit concept?

35

You know as the weather continues to warm, those “less than worthy” sites are going to look better and better. Print the site names, and let the consumers decide which ones are good or great or not so good. To have the VDP making pronouncement a for the consumer seems rather old fashioned to me.

36

Again, I agree with Steven’s comment above, especially the light dry to off-dry wines. It’s odd that certain VDP members don’t want GGs to be restricted to non-chaptalized wines as well. As he says, chaptalization isn’t a bad thing, but the VDP should highlight this tradition for their dry wines, too. Bill makes a good point in regard to sponti wines. Why restrict the residual sugar to under 4 grams of sugar per liter? A dry Saar Riesling with 10 or 11 grams can taste drier than a Pfalz Riesling with only 4 grams. Of course, there has to be a cut-off point for “dry,” but some of the best Mosel Rieslings are slightly above 9 grams and still taste dry. In addition, the ranking of sites as “Grosse Lage” is pure marketing. There are plenty of vineyards that – depending on the specific site, vines, vintage, and grower – remain unranked but have great potential.

37

Lars,

What is your threshold for tasting RS? Mine is around 4 g/l. Above that a wine may finish dry, but doesn’t start that way. Not that I don’t like a little more RS in trockens, but they don’t taste dry to me.

38

David: It depends on the vintage and the wine. You also have to factor in the acidity level, the pH value, as well as the dry extract. I don’t think you can isolate the RS level. I’ve just spent the last few days on the Ruwer and Saar, and there are plenty of wines above 4 g/l RS that taste dry.

1 Like
39

Agree Scott, Ulli Stein, Gunther Steinmetz, and Weiser-Künstler, three of my favorites, are not in as well, thank goodness. I was upset that Peter Lauer joined. But oh well I still will buy the wines. I just hate the idea that there is a club or group of 200 “elite” wine makers. I hate the human nature that has to group together and classify things, in this context at least. Maybe the VDP will hire Michele Rolland to consult with all 200 members to further homogenize the product. (OK, maybe that is a little harsh)
To say that “These are the German elite winemakers”, especially in the context of comparing the VDP to Burgundy’s system would be the same as saying that all Grand crus are the best wines that are in Burgundy, that they are better than all Premier crus, which are better than all villages, etc. It just doesn’t work that way. In the end, I think the consumers can be hurt by this as much as they can be helped.

40

It does depend. Many things do. But I find more than 4 or 5 g/l tastesble on entry, even if the wine finishes dry. If trocken is some badge of honor then why blur the edges. If the wines need the exra RS for balance (they often do) then admit that truly dry wines are not what is being sold. Right now trocken is a concept, not a fact.