Thanks Bill.
I think the misunderstanding is also somewhat definitional ie “What is a hot climate?”. While Barolo doesn’t have really high daily highs, it is “hot” in the sense that the monthly mean temp is as high the Southern Rhone.The big difference is that Piemonte gets this high mean temperature from very warm nights not hot days. High nighttime temperatures have a big impact on soil temperature and tends to burn off acidity. Pinot hates that condition, but it is probably a key climatic characteristic for Nebbiolo.
I now have data for recent vintages starting with 2004, and it is interesting to see that great vintages like 2004, 2006 and 2009 had very warm growing seasons while the cool vintages like 2005 and 2008 do seem to have a sleeker, more structured profile. In his retrospective of the 2000 vintage, Antonio Galloni posits that excessive heat at harvest (not necessarily summer heat) causes vintages like '97 and '00 to mature more rapidly. This makes a lot of sense.
For those that are interested these are the recent growing season means:
2004 - 65.0
2005 - 64.3
2006 - 66.2
2007 - 64.9
2008 - 63.2
2009 - 66.5
2010 - 64.2
For harvest weather, here are the Sept/Oct means
2004 - 61.4
2005 - 59.1
2006 - 63
2007 - 58.6
2008 - 59.9
2009 - 60.3
2010 - 57.8
Looking at the data, I now have high expectations for 2009. As long as harvest didn’t occur too early, the warm summer and cool Fall should be a great combination. I also wonder if 2006 has a bit of 2000/1997 ripeness.
There’s a vineyard not too far away on Skyline that had some Nebbiolo. The impression I got was that it ripened maybe 1 in 3 vintages. The sample I tasted was excellent, but the vines had been regrafted.
Kevin, I find your use of mean temperatures very interesting. As I understand it, the agricultural community uses Growing Degree Days to base 50°F to determine the suitability of particular microclimates for crop production. The GDD calculation utilises max and min daily temperatures rather than the mean temperature.
Obviously the GDD calculation would produce quite different results at a site where the max was 80°F and the min was 40°F vs a site where the Max was 70°F and the min 50°F, even though the mean temp of both sites would be 60°F.
Peter,
When evaluating a site, we look at both. They are closely correlated but, as you noted, slightly different. Mean temp is more closely related to soil temperature. HDD does a good job of helping us know when a site will flower, harvest etc. though it is less good when the mean is not 50% of the high and low. For example our Bearwallow site has a very sharp peak at the daily high. That moment lasts a few minutes and then the temp plummets. The daily high is not very meaningful at all.
There are other interesting analyses such as daylight temps, Nighttime degree hours etc.
I can make ticks appear in the checkboxes. There is a “submit” button on the old climate study page, but no “submit” button on this page. Maybe that’s the problem?
I would just point again to what Ken first noted – the south-facing slopes are reserved for nebbiolo. That tells you something important about the grape’s characteristics if the temperatures really are as warm as the stats indicate.
The other thing I’d add, having visited there twice in October (late in the month in 1998 and in the first week in 2004) is that it can be cool enough by then that ripening would probably go quite slowly. And you can get the fog for which the grape is named. I could imagine that fog might cut the sunlight on the grapes even if it keeps the temperatures temperate.
Finally, I’ve been there in early June (last year), late June/early July (1997), late August (1996) and mid-September (2002) and it’s never been uncomfortably hot.
Oh, and it can snow. Here’s Serralunga in early December 2005, when we were greeted by about a foot on the day we arrived:
It is striking that the high temperatures are similar for the Asti area and for the Rhys vineyards (especially Family Farm), but the mean and low temperatures are considerably lower for Rhys. The mean probably gives a good idea of what the soil temperature is closer to, although there are some diurnal variations that may be important.
I would think that any serious Nebbhead would prefer cooler vintages for superb Barolo/Barbaresco.
Monfortino is not Cheval Blanc…not that there’s anything wrong with that.
One aspect of teh climate in Piedmont that makes it quite unique amongst winegrowing areas is the relatively high humisity during the summer months, hence the benefit of thick skinned varieties.
What about the soil impact? Where would you find powdered limestone like that in California? Assuming that is a, significant factor too, no? Two things stood out when I visited. 1) the white chalky soil is everywhere in barolo. 2) not the best place to be a tree. They are like endangered species anywhere they think a grape vine might grow.
In the Barolo and La Morra zone, the soils are similar to those found in the Barbaresco zone, dating from the Tortonian period, being composed of calcareous marl that is
more compact and fertile. [2] Throughout the Barolo zone there are clay deposits and soil with enough alkalinity to
Brig,
I am sure that the soil plays a large role (probably more than climate) in the complexity of Barolo/Barberesco. Has anyone heard of Nebbiolo planted on schist or shale in Italy?
Like limestone these rocks weather into the fine particles that create clay soils so their physical properties can be quite similar (though not as much calcium).
AFAIK, the only location of comparable, separate limestone and schist parcels is on the hill of Hermitage and JL Chave prefers the schist.
The article above mentions alkaline soils “taming” acidity. Anyone know of examples of this? In CA, it seems to work the other way with alkaline soils producing grapes with higher acidity and lower pHs. Higher nighttime temps have an enormous impact on acidity (lowering it).
Yeah, while pulverized slate/schist might possess similar drainage characteristic as limestone marl, I’m guessing the impact of growing in calium carbonate dominated soil is a big factor. (alkaline or high PH as you mentioned)
maybe you just buy a shit load of agricultural lime and till it into the soil… Make your own barolo dirt.
There is calcareous soil in west paso. This guy did all the homework already.
Brig, limestone in CA is generally in smaller deposits so you have to look for them. There are several from the Lockwood Valley through Paso Robles and into the Sta. Rita hills area, as well as in the Gabilan Mountains, a couple in Solano County, and the Permanente deposit near los altos (and several smaller amid the Franciscan shale heading south toward Gilroy). The only place I’ve seen with the white clay soils is on a remote ranch on the south side of Chalone Peak, on the border of the Gabilan Mountains and what is called the Gabilan bench, which I mentioned earlier.
Brig,
I am sure that the soil plays a large role (probably more than climate) in the complexity of Barolo/Barberesco. Has anyone heard of Nebbiolo planted on schist or shale in Italy?
Like limestone these rocks weather into the fine particles that create clay soils so their physical properties can be quite similar (though not as much calcium).
AFAIK, the only location of comparable, separate limestone and schist parcels is on the hill of Hermitage and JL Chave prefers the schist.
The article above mentions alkaline soils “taming” acidity. Anyone know of examples of this? In CA, it seems to work the other way with alkaline soils producing grapes with higher acidity and lower pHs. Higher nighttime temps have an enormous impact on acidity (lowering it
I believe the hill of Hermitage is mainly granite and schist. No limestone. Granite is volcanic. Limestone is sedimentary.
Eric,
Jean Louis Chave told me that there was limestone. Apparently the hill is quite geologically diverse with schist, granite, limestone and conglomerate found in different areas.
![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}