Adding to Tom’s notes, Caparone in Paso planted nebbiolo back in 1980. I tasted there in Sep. of last year and was impressed.
Simon Lemus northeast of Gilroy on Day Road (near the high school) has Nebbiolo in a vineyard with Syrah, Grenache, Cab, Viognier, Zinfandel, Sangiovese, and some other things. The Syrah there ripens, if I remember correctly, fourth week in September more or less, the Zinfandel mid October along with the Grenache, the Nebbiolo seems to come off a week into November most years. My hunch is that it needs heat more like a Mourvedre than a Grenache (which you can ripen in certain SCM site, like Zayante vineyard), and Mourvedre you can consistently get ripe on WS Paso, albeit late in the year, but it struggles to get ripe in Chalone, for instance. Grenache at Coastview works only on fully exposed south-facing hills and it’s astounding how much the sunlight makes a difference (we have Pinot not 300 yards away that is usually only 3 weeks before the Grenache). I still haven’t decided that we can ripen Nebbiolo at Coastview. Our Cab pushes November every year on the most exposed section of vineyard. I have a warmer site I work with that I can show you where Mourvedre ripens mid- to end of October on clay/limestone that would probably be great for Nebbiolo. You’d also probably have good luck with Nebbiolo over in the Cienega Valley/Tres Pinos area. Warm, oodles of limestone, cheaper land, but fairly dry. Look at some of the registries of limestone mines in turn of the century California. They’re all down there, save the one near Montebello.
Adelaida does a very nice nebbiolo from the Glenrose vineyard. Last vintage available was '05 so I’m not sure if they still do it.
We found some good information on Barolo’s climate. If you would like to view it, click - https://www.rhysvineyards.com/vineyards/new_climate_tool/
My point was more about them planting exclusively on south slopes, or at least thinking that the highest quality nebbiolo is planted on the south slopes. The reason you would do that is to take advantage of every drop of sunshine and heat possible, which made me think it was cooler than it probably is. Like I said, it was a mistaken impression.
After playing a bit with the info tool, am I confused in thinking that the mean temperatures at skyline/alpine are pretty close to Asti, and higher in September and October?
Kevin, a few observations from your temperature data…
-The diurnal temperature variation in Burgundy (and the other European regions shown) is surprisingly small at 18-20 degrees compared to California’s winegrowing areas at 25-40 degrees. That whole “need really cool nights to preserve acidity” mantra must be a West Coast thing.
-Could the best place outside of Piemonte for growing Nebbiolo be Cote Rotie?
-It appears there’s a good chance you could ripen Nebbiolo at Skyline…it’s much closer to Barolo in temps than Horseshoe is. (not that I’m advocating you re-graft any of the pinot there!)
Ian,
Skyline would be running a fair bit behind until September. It might catch up in Sept/Oct but those Skyline Sept/Oct numbers are much higher than historical CA norms (the Skyline data is only 5 vintages).
On Alpine, you must be looking at the wrong line. You can click off the highs and lows if you just want to look at the means.
Yeah there’s a chance but any extra square foot of vineyard there would go to more Pinot!
Yep, I hear ya. Probably better off just buying another vineyard for Neb. 
So the short answer is, ‘Yes, Ian, you are confused’…
I have read that Nebbiolo is classified as a “warm climate” varietal. That can be confusing when you consider the origin of the grape… but then you think about Piemonte and realize it’s pretty much in a continental climate, as opposed to our mediterranean climate, so you are probably getting a warmer growing season without much marine influence.
As much as I like to think of the North Coast and Santa Cruz being “ideal” homes for Nebbiolo, I’m beginning to consider more and more lately that possibly inland Mendocino (Ukiah/Potter/Redwood) could possibly be better suited. I’ve heard of a few plantings up in the Sierra Foothills (which would make sense), as well as Paso (as previously stated with regards to Harrington).
The Fog is fooling, that is for sure…
John,
I think you are right. Looking at the climate summaries for Barolo vintages since 2004, I think the best climate match CA sites for Nebbiolo would be:
West side of Paso (is there any altitude?)
Higher sites in SoCal
The Gavilans south of Chalone at >2000 ft
Inland Sonoma - Coast range above 2000 ft and >10 miles from the ocean
Inland southern Mendo >2000 ft
The altitude requirement helps decrease the diurnal in order to get closer to Barolo’s very small shift. I think the key is getting a lot of heat accumulation without really high temps which requires warm nights. Inversion in the coastal range will do that above 2000 ft. Mendo and Sonoma also could get pretty cool in October which is probably important.
The best CA Nebb I have tasted is Palmina, does anyone know the altitude of their Santa Ynez vyds?
Kevin, I live there, and whether you believe in global warming or not, from 1997 on, there have been some radically hot years. 1997 and 2000 could be likened to “pre-global warming” hot vintages like 1990. 2003 was the most brutal summer that I have ever spent there, but then again, it was the hottest summer in 200 years throughout most of Europe. 2009 was not as bad as 2003, but I spent most of it in the pool or hiking in the Alps. However, in a year like 2011, it rained most of the spring and into the summer, so much so that early-to-mid summer still seemed like a bracingly cool spring. Winters are an even bigger crapshoot than summers. This year, an Italian friend was boasting about how warm it was and how he was doing all sorts of outdoor projects a few weeks ago, and then got slammed with 60cm of snow, followed by freezing and ice. (The Alps can do that at will, of course.) During the 15 years that I have been traveling or living there, I would say that the pattern is four full seasons, pool weather from Memorial day to Labor Day a la the northern U.S., the worst of any summer heat coming in June and July, and fall already on its way by mid-August. Lastly, there is often a strange phenomenon in November, an “Indian summer” effect of warm, clear days after the typical cold, damp, foggy days of the harvest. The locals believe that has to do with the fact that the Piemonte sits between the Alps and the Mediterranean.
But if you take the long view, I think that it is hard to conclude that Nebbiolo is a hot-weather grape. The classic, long-aging years have enough sun, but are rarely hot years, and ultra-hot years like 2003 generally produce raisiny, mediocre wines. If I were going to pick one place in the U.S. that could be likened to the Piemonte, it would probably be the mountains of western North Carolina, where summer days in the upper 90s are possible (if rare), while the winters can be either mild or sub-zero freezing with tons of snow.
I’ve enjoyed them as well–light color, aromatic, rustic but not overly so. IIRC TomHill’s view was much less favorable–flawed, badly made.
Honea is right in the middle of the SYV, and I don’t think there’s much elevation relative to sea level though there are a few mesas that separate the sub-climates. Stolpman and Sisquoc aren’t at elevation, either, as far as I know. These are all areas that seem to produce good Rhone varieties–not so cool/foggy as SRH or so hot as Happy Canyon. Based on the data you are collecting, Nebbiolo does seem to like a continental climate with N. Rhone-like heat accumulation. SYV is not continental and the diurnal flux is large, though it’s heat summation over the growing season probably is not too far off base.
The two Westside Paso vineyards we source from at Harrington are around 1,050 foot elevation and 1,750 foot elevation. The lower one is in the Templeton Gap area while the other is closer to the coast but outside the main Templeton Gap influence.
Honea (right in the heart of Santa Ynez Valley) and Stolpman (a couple of miles west in the Ballard Canyon portion of Santa Ynez Valley) are both a little under 800 foot elevation. Rancho Sisquoc, farther northwest in the Santa Maria Valley AVA, is just above the Sisquoc River at about 550 feet.
Well…Greg…my comments were based on tasting Dave’s wine yrs ago. I did…uhhhh…follow him from the very start!!!
Most of his early wines were flawed by inept winemaking. I understand that Dave has lightened up and cleaned up
his winemaking. I’ve not had any in over 10 yrs now.
Tom
Jeff and I talked about this when we were out there recently. Clearly there is so0mething about the terrior (i take this term to include climate) of the Langhe hills that we don’t seem to understand.
I do think it might be warmer in summer than we realize (that is my experience). I will say i wouldn’t discount the weather out of the growing season. From what i understand the precipitation (often in the form of snow) in winter is fairly high. In the middle of a fairly warm summer the folks at Vietti showed us how wet the earth was, 3 stories underground, apparently (according to them) a result of the condensation in winter. I wonder if it’s a grape that doesn’t mind wet feet?
Hoping to stop there next month, so I’ll report on the wines if I do visit there. As many times as I’ve been to Paso, I’ve never tasted their wines. I stopped by to taste a couple of years ago during the hours they were supposed to be open, but the tasting room was closed and there was not a soul around. Hopefully I’ll have better luck this time.