Some people like to ride merry go rounds with nuns, some like roller coasters with strippers.
I’m more a roller coaster stripper kind of guy. Things might go wrong from time to time, but I love the ride.
To quote Mr Brand: “Paul you do some crazy shit and it scares the crap out of me.” ![[bow.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/3/34fe6dfbb5b9ca18529c11cea0b49f72cb1f17d5.gif "bow"){kind=small}
We try to exclude it.
Inoculating or not has no effect on Brett but cleanliness does.
Sanitation and an overwhelming population of Saccharomyces is a pretty good “big step” to preclude brett in the toolkit.
But many still argue that brett is part of their native yeast, and more extreme types argue it is terroir!
I was with a group tasting at Dom. Yves & Mathilde Gangloff a few years back. The first wine poured was a Condrieu which, to my great surprise, showed considerable residual sugar. When I commented on that, Yves Gangloff explained: “Yes, I prefer dry, but this year Nature gave me sweet.”
Not sure what that says about the topic, just seemed appropriate to repeat it here.
I don’t have the experience of others on this thread. Still, I don’t really want the same predictable results from yeast that I know will do this or that. Yeast has a huge impact on wine quality, which is the number one argument for using cultured years. Yet I don’t want the same thing each time. What if you could get the exact same grapes each year, really great quality grapes with a predictable, consistent performance in the winery? I wouldn’t want it. I want differences year to year. And until I experience or see others experience significant issues with spontaneous fermentation, I don’t see what the big risk is in it.
Vince, Paul, Kevin, Peter, Linda, Nate, et al –
Innoculating for ml then? Always? Never? Sometime?
Adam Lee
Siduri Wines
Not in years. We have grown to really like slow malos. The '08s didnt finish until august.
You make me sound like a big softie. That was in reference to some of your odder vineyard philosophies. I’ll ride the lightning, no problem.
I innoculate for ml because I think it improves wine quality and probably decreases histamine reactions for those with sensitivities. I innoculate with ml culture that doesn’t produce diacetyl.
I also add small amounts of heroin to encourage repeated consumption.
Always. Working with high alcohol Zins almost necessitates it.
As far as flavor impact, the differences with regard to yeast tend to dissipate after about a year or so anyway.
And as far as Brett is concerned, they are able to live in VERY low sugar environments. Brett can grow in 0.01% hexose concentrations.
Control is sometimes necessary but it is worth remembering that a cultivated garden can be nice but will never rival the beauty of nature’s landscapes…
In Washington, I believe cocaine is more traditional.
What a crock of crap. – Hurricanes and earthquakes and forest fires and mudslides are just as natural as a “landscape.” And humans are part of nature as well.
Adam Lee
Siduri Wines
At this juncture, in order to avoid confusion and misleading the consumer, I should probably disclose that we actually use biodynamic heroin. Which means it isn’t real heroin. Hell, there’s nothing resembling heroin involved at all.
Because its biodynamic heroin–it isn’t real.
I basically wear a Harry Potter costume one day a week during harvest, which is enough to convince most people that biodynamics is real.
We are hoping to eventually burn someone at the stake, to maximize our marketing dollars. We tried to enlist the snuff film people, but even they won’t touch this project.
I also have a very beautiful pointy hat with moons and stars and other cool, occult, astral shit on it.
Adam - Always for Chardonnay. Most of the time for my reds. The base barrels for my Haut Tubee I tend to let go on their own but everything else I add ML starter. I’ve had lots start on their own and finish very fast but I haven’t gone all ‘feral’. Two things scare me about it. One - my cellar is cold 55-60 from Nov-Mar. I warm up a little in the summer (65-70) but I worry about dragging Malo out. I don’t really have the option of warming the cellar up, or even a portion of it. Two - Some of my lots are high Brix and tend to hi VA. .08 is not unusual. On those things I’d rather get them stable sooner rather than later. I feel better about life getting sulfur and a racking done in February vs June.
It’s not a dogma/religious thing for me. I’m trying to make the best wine I can every time. If I though a feral/un-pitched Malo made a better wine, I’d try it more, but right now I don’t know that it does.
I hear this argument used quite often. But it doesn’t make sense to me.
If a winemaker really wanted to express the vintage, he’d pick on the same day each year. Or pick at exactly the same brix or acid level every year. And what winemaker leaves all things to chance in the winery? Equipment was picked for a specific reason. As are barrels. How is deciding to use a cultured yeast any more an obscurer of vintage than the myriad of other choices winemakers make to control the quality of wine each year?
Personally, I think that keeping the yeast constant helps to isolate vintage variation to the fruit itself, which is what I’m hoping to highlight. I don’t want vintage distinction in my wines to be the result of different yeast or different oak. Just my way of thinking ![[berserker.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/8/8600bbd4810d342b8fbd4ffb62b4f0026275fd37.gif "berserker"){kind=small}
I thought you would enjoy that one Adam.
Yeah, I took the bit way too easily!
Adam Lee
Siduri Wines
Control is sometimes necessary but it is worth remembering that a cultivated garden can be nice but will never rival the beauty of nature’s landscapes…
You’ve never been to Kyoto have you.
In the classic Japanese garden, you want to be more natural than nature.
At the risk of hijacking this thread (and proving yet again that NOTHING posted on the internets can be allowed to go uncontested), your statement probably depends upon your own personal definition of “classic Japanese garden” to make it hold true.
