I put this in wine talk instead of travel because for me this discussion I have with tour drivers is about the wine. I’m a winery owner in Napa Valley. I often discuss with them that they are not reaching out to or appealing to the wine knowledgeable visitor who wants to discover truly great wines. New finds or simply curated access. They say their business is entertainment not wine. I say they are missing an entire audience. Those of you here are very wine knowledgable and very wine centric. Do you agree or disagree. Have you used Tour Drivers, would you trust them to show you the good stuff you might not know about. Would you book a Driver if they were the real deal in knowing new great discoveries or getting you access to the already famous…without the hassle or possibly the excessive cost? It’s something I wish I had had when I was first discovering the Valley.
I have never booked a driver without already having an itinerary largely setup. When we have a gap, sometimes I’ve asked drivers if they’ll suggest a place that would be a good fit. My expectation is that the proposal will be aligned with the wineries I am already planning to visit. Had this issue recently in Oregon. We went to a bunch of really great wineries. Driver selected a place he had a referral fee or something with because he was really pressuring a visit, and the winery was just not nearly on the same level of the other places we were visiting. To the point we politely declined and asked to go elsewhere.
I would expect any tour driver to ask his customer what they’re looking for. Offer different experiences. There are a lot of parties in Napa that don’t give a crap about learning about wine. They want to have fun, get kinda drunk before dinner, laugh with their friends. They’re not looking for a long term wine relationship, to try barrel samples and consider variations in vintages.
Some probably do, but those people are probably doing some research, reading in advance, and trying to figure out where to go instead of relying on a tour guide. But it would do no harm for a tour guide to offer the “personal touch deep dive” offer and then a “fun” offer.
Yes, yes, yes. I totally agree and I knew you were out there.
I’ve used Ona Marks at Designated Drivers Napa/Sonoma for years. Her and Dan know exactly what I like and the level at which I collect. That goes for everything from private winery appointments to hotels and reservations at restaurants when visiting. I call Ona to let her know when I am showing up and she sends me an email a few weeks before we show up to make sure everything is perfect. There are even times when she will tell me, “I have this place as a surprise” and won’t tell me where it is. And every time it has been perfect.
I don’t understand who uses a driver for tastings? I drink enough wine at meals. I spit nearly everything that’s poured at a tasting, as does the winemaker. If you start drinking at tastings, you won’t remember anything about what you are tasting and probably also buy way too many subpar bottles.
The switchbacks in the mountains is reason enough to have a driver!
FIFY
Totally! Drive myself, always spit, remember the experience. Also, really enjoy creating my itinerary and picking the wineries I want to visit. Never a dud that way :).
I could be wrong, but I’d guess the vast majority of visitors are casual tourists who aren’t wine nerds like WBer’s, and so aren’t really that particular.
I don’t disagree that it would be an improvement.
I’d also guess that drivers get kickbacks, but I could be very wrong about that.
I’m an n of 1, but my first Napa trip included visits to the larger, more commercial, “big name” wineries. On my second trip, someone recommended a driver who introduced me to exactly the types of places you’re talking about, David, where you receive both a great experience and great wine. I believe my driver’s criteria for that trip were:
- No tasting fees.
- Great wine at great prices.
- Intimate tasting experience.
- Awesome people behind the wines.
That’s actually how I ended up finding your winery! To me, that kind of visit is vastly different from simply paying for “entertainment.” That also made me appreciate just how valuable a knowledgeable tour driver can be, probably even more so after the experience I had on my first trip.
I mostly do my own research and curate my own trips now, but I’ll never give up using a driver. I clearly don’t have the discipline of some people on this board who can drive themselves around Napa and actually spit out the wine during tastings. 
Not precisely germane to your question, but “going to Napa” has definitely become much more about entertainment than serious wine discovery or exploration. Might be the same number of serious wine people making the journey but a lot more general wine “enjoyers” heading there for entertainment and the Napa experience. Drivers cater to that much larger crowd.
I use a driver as its normally a day trip w four others and its much more enjoyable to not have to worry about it
Most everyone I know refuses to get into a relationship with a kickback driver…but they are out there.
Sometimes I spit and sometimes I don’t, but I dont think it’s hard to imagine why someone on vacation might want to drink wine while visiting wineries.
I believe there may be a certain amount of naivete out there regarding drivers and their relationships with wineries, more so in this challenging time for wineries.
I only ever hired a tour guide once and that was in Chateauneuf du Pape. Purely because he handled all the reservations/driving and logistics. I couldn’t tell you if I was exposed to anything truly unique for a wine geek, but I can tell you it was one of our best wine experiences ever.
In Vegas, there’s an app that all the strip clubs, clubs, and dispensaries use to kickback to the drivers. It’s hilarious to me how formalized the system is.
I would say I fit your target demographic. Took WSET 2 for fun, go to Napa/Sonoma probably monthly on average (from the East Bay), want to support family-owned wineries and not the faceless corporate wineries, etc. The only time I used a tour company was a bus to fit a bunch of friends to surprise my wife (fiancé back then) for a milestone birthday.
This is maybe a perception thing on my end, but I view drivers at basically two ends of the spectrum: the white glove type service that cater to the uber wealthy, or those ones that just schlep people around who don’t care about the wine and are basically just hiring a designated driver.
As others have alluded to, I’m driving on my own and doing my own research on any new (to me) wineries to visit. I’ve not thought about outsourcing that discovery piece to someone else. I think there could be value there, but I’m also miserly and rather put that money toward wine than paying someone else to drive us around.
Edit: Guess it’s fair to say I’m looking at this from a local Napa/Sonoma perspective. When we get around to traveling abroad, where I know very little about the region or producers or don’t speak the language, a knowledgeable guide would be invaluable.
Can’t speak as to Napa, but when the fiancée (now wife) and I visited Stellenbosch, I hired a driver for the day and planned my own vineyards (wine farms) to visit. I think a lot does depend on how interested/dedicated to wine the visitors are.
I’ve always planned my own itinerary and hired a driver to take me around. I’m drinking the wine and sometimes have an extra taste of the ones I find enjoyable. Shoot me.