Most deceptive wine business practices to watch out for

[Philip_N_Jones]

Some online retailers are very open about the fact that they have no inventory, and are merely order-takers. Others do not advertise that fact. One clue is when they have no brick-and-mortar store. I try to avoid such dealers. Some retailers are very open about how much inventory they have. That makes buying much more transparent.

[Joseph_Grassa]

Some online retailers are very open about the fact that they have no inventory, and are merely order-takers. Others do not advertise that fact. One clue is when they have no brick-and-mortar store. I try to avoid such dealers. Some retailers are very open about how much inventory they have. That makes buying much more transparent.

as long as they are transparent it is all good to me.

[Chris_Seiber]

By far the most common deceptive practice I encounter is merchants listing wines they do not have on wine-searcher.com. So many times I follow the link to the retailer ands the wine isn’t there any more. That is fair. But too often, I see a certain wine available on their website and I go to the trouble of setting up and account and buying the wine. Two weeks later I’m wondering what happened. I contact them and find out the wine was sold out when I ordered. When I start looking for it again, it’s sold out everywhere else. So the sloppy (or dishonest) retailer has caused me to miss out entirely.

If you sell wine on line, there is no excuse for not having reasonable inventory control. The best retailer websites actually say how many bottles they have in stock. If I miss out on a particular wine, it’s usually because a retailer sold me bottles he didn’t have.

Better still, the last (and believe me, these are the last) two times I’ve ordered from a big name retailer in New York which rhymes with “lackeys”* they’ve just sent one or two of the bottle I purchased, with zero explanation or notice.

Once, I ordered two bottles each of two Maume red Burgs, and they just sent me one pair. The other time, I ordered 3 bottles of a Chablis, they sent me one bottle. Both times, I looked at the box, puzzled over why I only got the one or two bottles, reached out to them, and they said “oh we didn’t have the others.” With no apology or anything.

But of course I paid for shipping for my one or two bottles across the country. The second time I said that they should have told me and I would not have chosen to pay to ship one or two bottles across the country - who would buy a single bottle of $40 Chablis and have it shipped from New York to California?

So the second time, I reached out about the shipping issue, and they, grudgingly and with zero apology or anything, said “we’ll give you $5 off shipping on your next order.” With no documentation of that, and so I can only imagine trying to contact someone there down the road and to explain why I get $5 off my shipping.

I guess that’s not so much deceptive business practice as just bad customer service.


*So this will turn up in search functions, it was Zachys

[Arv_R]

Along the lines of the Maison/Domaine issue mentioned upthread, I see more cases of 2nd wines being flogged as if they were the first. Sellers will present them as Christian Mouiex Dominus ‘Napanook’, with price tags that are closer to the grand vin than they ought to be. Happens at auction, on winelists, internet retail etc.

Maybe the only place that sad tactic doesn’t work is for on the shelf sales.

[Joseph_Grassa]

just got a new one

$50 Opus One / Mondavi Inspired RSV Cab 16.50?!?

My brain saw Opus One and I opened the email… now I am 50% less likely to open the next email from them

[Raciel_Porto]

One thing I’ve noticed more in physical stores in the last two years has been old stock being mixed in with current releases e.g. I saw a 2013 blanc mixed in with the current release 2018’s over the weekend. This will particularly screw over the person ordering from an Instacart type of intermediary, or perhaps the innocent spouse dispatched to the store, and instructed to come home with a favorite estate.

This one I have seen several times (and complained about it to the manager) at Total Wine & More.
They advertise in their website (or app) some specific vintage of a bottle for price X and even tell you the aisle/bin where it is. When you get to the store, the price tag says (again) the advertised vintage and price BUT the actual bottles are different, usually newer vintages or cheaper for that matter. I would never buy online from them because of that. I cannot trust the picking/delivery person to notice the mistake.

[Daniel_Walsh]

One thing I’ve noticed more in physical stores in the last two years has been old stock being mixed in with current releases e.g. I saw a 2013 blanc mixed in with the current release 2018’s over the weekend. This will particularly screw over the person ordering from an Instacart type of intermediary, or perhaps the innocent spouse dispatched to the store, and instructed to come home with a favorite estate.

This one I have seen several times (and complained about it to the manager) at Total Wine & More.
They advertise in their website (or app) some specific vintage of a bottle for price X and even tell you the aisle/bin where it is. When you get to the store, the price tag says (again) the advertised vintage and price BUT the actual bottles are different, usually newer vintages or cheaper for that matter. I would never buy online from them because of that. I cannot trust the picking/delivery person to notice the mistake.

This actually happened to me recently and my local one in Pasadena has some decent wine, but I wouldn’t actually purchase over there.

[Nathan_V]

Former employee of DRC.

[John_Glas]

just got a new one

$50 Opus One / Mondavi Inspired RSV Cab 16.50?!?

My brain saw Opus One and I opened the email… now I am 50% less likely to open the next email from them

Seriously who is this?

[Joseph_Grassa]

just got a new one

$50 Opus One / Mondavi Inspired RSV Cab 16.50?!?

My brain saw Opus One and I opened the email… now I am 50% less likely to open the next email from them

Seriously who is this?

wineslash

[John_Glas]

just got a new one

$50 Opus One / Mondavi Inspired RSV Cab 16.50?!?

My brain saw Opus One and I opened the email… now I am 50% less likely to open the next email from them

Seriously who is this?

wineslash

Never heard of them but thanks for the heads up.

[RH_Drexel]

On the supplier side of things, I would say the practice of chaptalizing domestically. Winemakers who do it have only been willing to discuss it off- the-record. I find this kind of omission frustrating, especially when its done by people who would descibe themselves and purists, non-interventionists and die-hard Burgundians at heart. Why not just admit you’re adding back sugar, like they sometimes do in France. I also find it puzzling that this is done by a few folks domestically (that I know of) when they pick at really low brix? Guess this is more of a winemaking question, but are they picking super low so that the end result is a low-alc wine but adding sugar for texture and weight? It’s confusing.

[A_d_a_m_Mintz]

Former employee of DRC.

I got the same email today. Oh an “employee of DRC” so maybe the Accountant is making wine now? Must be good then!

[Wes_Barton]

On the supplier side of things, I would say the practice of chaptalizing domestically. Winemakers who do it have only been willing to discuss it off- the-record. I find this kind of omission frustrating, especially when its done by people who would descibe themselves and purists, non-interventionists and die-hard Burgundians at heart. Why not just admit you’re adding back sugar, like they sometimes do in France. I also find it puzzling that this is done by a few folks domestically (that I know of) when they pick at really low brix? Guess this is more of a winemaking question, but are they picking super low so that the end result is a low-alc wine but adding sugar for texture and weight? It’s confusing.

They can’t talk about it because it isn’t legal.

There was a hilarious thread on the old Parker Board forever ago for funny winery stories. One was by someone ITB who glommed onto a tour of some hallowed Napa Cab producer during harvest in a cool year (I’d guess '98 or '00). The guide was standing up on top of a pallet of sugar bags speaking to the guests and fielding questions. So, this poster asked about chaptalization. The guide responded “Oh, no. We would never do that.” The poster smirked and left it alone, while the other guests, well, ignorance is bliss. They didn’t know what had been asked or how funny the straight-faced denial was.

As to the winemaking question, they might hit their sweet spot at low brix, but be below their desired body. Optimal/maximal aromatics tend to come before grapes are otherwise ready to pick. Blending in another wine or adding concentrate to round things out might work in some circumstances, but would change the character. I suppose just boosting the alcohol is a lower intervention, yielding a truer, purer expression. So, they could argue it’s lower intervention. But, it’s pandering to a preference or expectation, so not necessarily a better wine by the standards of a wine geek.

Depending on the wine, low ABV can come across as refreshing or watery. Sounds like they’re adjusting upward to have enough body to not seem watery, but still be a light bodied low ABV wine.

[Michael_Martin]

On the supplier side of things, I would say the practice of chaptalizing domestically. Winemakers who do it have only been willing to discuss it off- the-record. I find this kind of omission frustrating, especially when its done by people who would descibe themselves and purists, non-interventionists and die-hard Burgundians at heart. Why not just admit you’re adding back sugar, like they sometimes do in France. I also find it puzzling that this is done by a few folks domestically (that I know of) when they pick at really low brix? Guess this is more of a winemaking question, but are they picking super low so that the end result is a low-alc wine but adding sugar for texture and weight? It’s confusing.

They can’t talk about it because it isn’t legal.

There was a hilarious thread on the old Parker Board forever ago for funny winery stories. One was by someone ITB who glommed onto a tour of some hallowed Napa Cab producer during harvest in a cool year (I’d guess '98 or '00). The guide was standing up on top of a pallet of sugar bags speaking to the guests and fielding questions. So, this poster asked about chaptalization. The guide responded “Oh, no. We would never do that.” The poster smirked and left it alone, while the other guests, well, ignorance is bliss. They didn’t know what had been asked or how funny the straight-faced denial was.

As to the winemaking question, they might hit their sweet spot at low brix, but be below their desired body. Optimal/maximal aromatics tend to come before grapes are otherwise ready to pick. Blending in another wine or adding concentrate to round things out might work in some circumstances, but would change the character. I suppose just boosting the alcohol is a lower intervention, yielding a truer, purer expression. So, they could argue it’s lower intervention. But, it’s pandering to a preference or expectation, so not necessarily a better wine by the standards of a wine geek.

Depending on the wine, low ABV can come across as refreshing or watery. Sounds like they’re adjusting upward to have enough body to not seem watery, but still be a light bodied low ABV wine.

Acidification fits right in with this discussion. Rarely admitted, often done.

[Aleks_V]

Former employee of DRC.

Saw this today from Envoyer…this was quite a stretch. I guess the next one will be “former janitor at Chateau Petrus”

[RH_Drexel]

On the supplier side of things, I would say the practice of chaptalizing domestically. Winemakers who do it have only been willing to discuss it off- the-record. I find this kind of omission frustrating, especially when its done by people who would descibe themselves and purists, non-interventionists and die-hard Burgundians at heart. Why not just admit you’re adding back sugar, like they sometimes do in France. I also find it puzzling that this is done by a few folks domestically (that I know of) when they pick at really low brix? Guess this is more of a winemaking question, but are they picking super low so that the end result is a low-alc wine but adding sugar for texture and weight? It’s confusing.

They can’t talk about it because it isn’t legal.

There was a hilarious thread on the old Parker Board forever ago for funny winery stories. One was by someone ITB who glommed onto a tour of some hallowed Napa Cab producer during harvest in a cool year (I’d guess '98 or '00). The guide was standing up on top of a pallet of sugar bags speaking to the guests and fielding questions. So, this poster asked about chaptalization. The guide responded “Oh, no. We would never do that.” The poster smirked and left it alone, while the other guests, well, ignorance is bliss. They didn’t know what had been asked or how funny the straight-faced denial was.

As to the winemaking question, they might hit their sweet spot at low brix, but be below their desired body. Optimal/maximal aromatics tend to come before grapes are otherwise ready to pick. Blending in another wine or adding concentrate to round things out might work in some circumstances, but would change the character. I suppose just boosting the alcohol is a lower intervention, yielding a truer, purer expression. So, they could argue it’s lower intervention. But, it’s pandering to a preference or expectation, so not necessarily a better wine by the standards of a wine geek.

Depending on the wine, low ABV can come across as refreshing or watery. Sounds like they’re adjusting upward to have enough body to not seem watery, but still be a light bodied low ABV wine.

Thank you. That’s a helpful explanation re: the winemaking side of things.

Yes, I guess they don’t talk about adding sugar because it’s illegal here, but the same set of winemakers sure don’t hold back criticizing the work of other, less "terroir driven ’ winemakers. Lol.

[Collin_Dahl]

Every distributor can accidentally show you a '17 and ship the '18. Most of the time, it’s just one of those things. A few distributors have the “bad luck” to have this occur 10%, 20% of the time. At some point, you sort of suspect it’s intentional. [cough, cough] Unfortunately, they might have some things that you still really want to have, so you have to play the game.

Depending on how intake is handled, some shops probably won’t notice the vintage change. Some won’t care. If the employees got to taste the samples, they might be telling you about last year’s wine.

When I travel, I frequent local wine shops and I buy a fair amount of wine at retail. If I see shelf talkers that are still advertising last year’s wine (or worse), I grab them, and hand them over when I check out. “Hey, these are outdated…don’t want to see you getting pinched by the consumer protection peeps.” The reactions vary.

[Ian_Sutton]

On the supplier side of things, I would say the practice of chaptalizing domestically. Winemakers who do it have only been willing to discuss it off- the-record. I find this kind of omission frustrating, especially when its done by people who would descibe themselves and purists, non-interventionists and die-hard Burgundians at heart. Why not just admit you’re adding back sugar, like they sometimes do in France. I also find it puzzling that this is done by a few folks domestically (that I know of) when they pick at really low brix? Guess this is more of a winemaking question, but are they picking super low so that the end result is a low-alc wine but adding sugar for texture and weight? It’s confusing.

On the face of it this seems bizarre.

Perhaps in more marginal climates and the sugar is added because a lower alc% would make it a difficult sell in the domestic market? That feels dumb though, like a short guy trying to play basketball by wearing platform heels.

If it’s in a warm/hot climate region it’s even more difficult to fathom, but arguably more interesting as to why and what the end result would be.

[Marc_Frontario]

Deceptive practices?..Alfert tasting note doping driving up the prices of our favorite wines?