Most consistent burgundy producers

[MChang]

Easy!

PYCM
Mugneret Gibourg

I’ve never opened a bottle that felt hard, shut down, unbalanced or flawed.

They both have an openness (almost an eagerness to please) and core of not too sweet fruit that beguile almost any taster. No rationalizations or equivocations ever needed.

I would have put Mugneret-Gibourg on the list until a couple weeks ago. I think we’re planning to open a bunch in a couple weeks so we’ll see.

[Howard_Cooper]

Easy!

PYCM
Mugneret Gibourg

I’ve never opened a bottle that felt hard, shut down, unbalanced or flawed.

They both have an openness (almost an eagerness to please) and core of not too sweet fruit that beguile almost any taster. No rationalizations or equivocations ever needed.

I would have put Mugneret-Gibourg on the list until a couple weeks ago. I think we’re planning to open a bunch in a couple weeks so we’ll see.

You are criticizing someone for mentioning MG because you did not like ONE wine from them? Not even one wine, but one bottle of one wine? Are there any consistent producers anywhere in the history of the world by this definition? Have you tasted all the wines Rousseau and HN made in 2004? If you did, could they meet your standards?

[MChang]

Easy!

PYCM
Mugneret Gibourg

I’ve never opened a bottle that felt hard, shut down, unbalanced or flawed.

They both have an openness (almost an eagerness to please) and core of not too sweet fruit that beguile almost any taster. No rationalizations or equivocations ever needed.

I would have put Mugneret-Gibourg on the list until a couple weeks ago. I think we’re planning to open a bunch in a couple weeks so we’ll see.

You are criticizing someone for mentioning MG because you did not like ONE wine from them? Not even one wine, but one bottle of one wine? Are there any consistent producers anywhere in the history of the world by this definition? Have you tasted all the wines Rousseau and HN made in 2004? If you did, could they meet your standards?

I didn’t criticize anyone. I said I didn’t put them on my list. You’re free to put whatever wines you’d like on your own list of wines you think are consistent.

I’ve had more than 100 bottles of the 4 producers on my list this year and 100% of the bottles were superb.

I haven’t had a bad bottle of Chevillon either but some have not been ready.

[Howard_Cooper]

I would have put Mugneret-Gibourg on the list until a couple weeks ago. I think we’re planning to open a bunch in a couple weeks so we’ll see.

You are criticizing someone for mentioning MG because you did not like ONE wine from them? Not even one wine, but one bottle of one wine? Are there any consistent producers anywhere in the history of the world by this definition? Have you tasted all the wines Rousseau and HN made in 2004? If you did, could they meet your standards?

I didn’t criticize anyone. I said I didn’t put them on my list. You’re free to put whatever wines you’d like on your own list of wines you think are consistent.

I’ve had more than 100 bottles of the 4 producers on my list this year and 100% of the bottles were superb.

I haven’t had a bad bottle of Chevillon either but some have not been ready.

Reread your posts 17 and 21. In post one, you just left them off your list. But, in post 21 you criticized someone else for putting them on their list and stated specifically in post 17 that you left them off your list because of ONE bottle of one wine. You can obviously like or dislike any producer you want to like or dislike, I don’t care. My question is not about whether you put them on your list or not. Again, I don’t care. My question is whether the fact that you did not like one bottle of one wine should be enough to make a winery be considered not consistent.

[MChang]

You are criticizing someone for mentioning MG because you did not like ONE wine from them? Not even one wine, but one bottle of one wine? Are there any consistent producers anywhere in the history of the world by this definition? Have you tasted all the wines Rousseau and HN made in 2004? If you did, could they meet your standards?

I didn’t criticize anyone. I said I didn’t put them on my list. You’re free to put whatever wines you’d like on your own list of wines you think are consistent.

I’ve had more than 100 bottles of the 4 producers on my list this year and 100% of the bottles were superb.

I haven’t had a bad bottle of Chevillon either but some have not been ready.

Reread your posts 17 and 21. In post one, you just left them off your list. But, in post 21 you criticized someone else for putting them on their list and stated specifically in post 17 that you left them off your list because of ONE bottle of one wine. You can obviously like or dislike any producer you want to like or dislike, I don’t care. My question is not about whether you put them on your list or not. Again, I don’t care. My question is whether the fact that you did not like one bottle of one wine should be enough to make a winery be considered not consistent.

“I would have put Mugneret-Gibourg on the list until a couple weeks ago. I think we’re planning to open a bunch in a couple weeks so we’ll see.”

Not sure in what universe this is criticizing another poster. If I criticized a poster they wouldn’t have any doubt about it.

As I said earlier, I found 100% of the > 100 bottles of the 4 wines on my list superb this year. Other producers I’ve had recently haven’t met that standard.

You will note a lot of high quality producers not on that list that I often drink including Lignier, DRC, Arnoux-Lachaux, etc.

[David_Bu3ker]

Yep, one bottle and he drops them like a hot rock. He’s not a wine geek. He’s a prestige geek.

[Brian_Pinci]

Yep, one bottle and he drops them like a hot rock. He’s not a wine geek. He’s a prestige geek.

I’d drop them like a hot rock too. At those prices the bottles better all be perfect. Of course, reasonably priced wines I give multiple chances. But I’d be a fool to spend another $400+ On a premier cru from them if I didn’t like it the first time

[MChang]

Yep, one bottle and he drops them like a hot rock. He’s not a wine geek. He’s a prestige geek.

Not really sure how not putting them on the most consistent list is dropping them like a hot rock either.

I’ve bought a lot of M-G lately actually; a lot of 17s and what 19s I’ve been able to find.

That being said, here’s my experience with M-G of late.

17 Clos Vougeot: spectacular if somewhat tight.

17 Vosne Romanee: actually a bit less generous than the 17 CV, took awhile to open up, but beautiful once it did.

14 Chaignots: surprisingly more open than the recent 07, but beautiful pure fruits.

09 Clos Vougeot: Drinking beautifully at the moment.

07 Chaignots: anonymous in this lineup.

Yes the 07 chaignots was the most striking example of it not drinking well, but it hasn’t just been as consistently great as the other wines. That being said the highs are very high.

[Greg_K]

I’m not going to wade into the arguments between posters, but would say two things:

1. It was always inevitable that most people would list their favorite producers. One of the biggest reasons people have favorite producers is because they find those wines to be consistently good.
2. This was always a fundamentally flawed question, because Domaines and styles change. I personally think since 2001 Mugneret-Gibourg have made some of the most consistently excellent wine in the Cote de Nuits (and they might have been my first response, actually). But the pre 2000 wines are rustic and pretty different. Similarly, I think Laurent Lignier makes the best Clos de la Roche today, but 20 years ago the wines were made in a completely different style (and they won’t age in a similar way). Or Ramonet, where the whites have changed (in a style I don’t like). Domaines change, winemaking styles change, etc. So what is “consistency” and during what period? I have no idea.

I would also add, like with ever job, sometimes people make mistakes. Some of my favorite Domaines have off vintages. So not being the most consistent is, at the end of the day, not a big deal.

[crickey]

“Consistency” is a vague attribute. Consistent across what dimension? Would “consistency” include common farming and production techniques across all bottlings, a criteria that Rousseau, for instance, would fail. Consider also an example of a producer who uses consistent production techniques for all vintages: you would end up with high consistency on one dimension introducing inconsistency (vintage-to-vintage variability) on another.

If I may rephrase Michael’s initial question in the spirit in which I believe it was intended: if you were to open a random bottle – any wine, any vintage – from Producer X, which producer would have the highest likelihood of a good wine? My answer would be DRC or Leroy. DRC because (so far as I am aware) it produces only grand cru wines and Leroy just because of who Lalou Bize-Leroy is.

[RyanC]

Mugneret Gibourg
Raveneau

[MChang]

“Consistency” is a vague attribute. Consistent across what dimension? Would “consistency” include common farming and production techniques across all bottlings, a criteria that Rousseau, for instance, would fail. Consider also an example of a producer who uses consistent production techniques for all vintages: you would end up with high consistency on one dimension introducing inconsistency (vintage-to-vintage variability) on another.

If I may rephrase Michael’s initial question in the spirit in which I believe it was intended: if you were to open a random bottle – any wine, any vintage – from Producer X, which producer would have the highest likelihood of a good wine? My answer would be DRC or Leroy. DRC because (so far as I am aware) it produces only grand cru wines and Leroy just because of who Lalou Bize-Leroy is.

Drc makes petit monts and made duvalt blochet 1er. They also make a haut Cote de Nuits white.

[MChang]

I should have probably said consistently good in my OP, but I would have thought that was implied.

I think most people would construe my post in the spirit it was intended, meaning if you open a bottle it is always or nearly always good.

This doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a list of my favorite producers, although some of them certainly are among my favorites.

[Peter_Chiu]

I should have probably said consistently good in my OP, but I would have thought that was implied.

I think most people would construe my post in the spirit it was intended, meaning if you open a bottle it is always or nearly always good.

This doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a list of my favorite producers, although some of them certainly are among my favorites.

I like drinking red Burgundy wine because …it behaves like my Spanish girl-friend …whose name is Carmen and she has a hot temper .

Once in a while…I open a Lanessan 2014 Mgm because it is so consistent.

[MChang]

I should have probably said consistently good in my OP, but I would have thought that was implied.

I think most people would construe my post in the spirit it was intended, meaning if you open a bottle it is always or nearly always good.

This doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a list of my favorite producers, although some of them certainly are among my favorites.

I like drinking red Burgundy wine because …it behaves like my Spanish girl-friend …whose name is Carmen and she has a hot temper .

Once in a while…I open a Lanessan 2014 Mgm because it is so consistent.

That’s all well and good, but the Mugneret Gibourg grand cru are $1000+ a bottle now, making a dud quite painful.

[Peter_Chiu]

Page 15 J. Morris - Inside Burgundy Edition 1 - published in 2010.

He reported - among the beautiful things in my life have been some wonderful bottles of burgundy. Not necessary g-crus, not always great vintage…

Burgundy does not respond well to being put in straitjacket. There are no set rules to making burgundy;and they are no set rules to appreciating them…

I hope Mr. Morris…does not mind that I keep on repeating what he always said - in this Book.

[MChang]

Page 15 J. Morris - Inside Burgundy Edition 1 - published in 2010.

He reported - among the beautiful things in my life have been some wonderful bottles of burgundy. Not necessary g-crus, not always great vintage…

Burgundy does not respond well to being put in straitjacket. There are no set rules to making burgundy;and they are no set rules to appreciating them…

I hope Mr. Morris…does not mind that I keep on repeating what he always said - in this Book.

Not sure what that has anything to do with producers that make consistently good wine. No one said anything about them tasting the same, just drinking well.

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

…
Rousseau makes great wines since I and you were born. This is a historical fact. Everyone loves Rousseau…and but just Michael Chong and/or Peter CHIU. Obviously the big 3 have always been good but I’ve poured CDLR with Lignier, Dujac, Ponsot, and others and the Rousseau have been every bit as good (although Rousseau signature still comes across pretty clearly).

Rousseau charmes is really good now, especially 2009-2013. The 2013 Charmes was out of control good when I had it earlier this year.

Out of curiosity (which is destined to be everlasting), what is the “Rousseau signature”?

[MChang]

…
Rousseau makes great wines since I and you were born. This is a historical fact. Everyone loves Rousseau…and but just Michael Chong and/or Peter CHIU. Obviously the big 3 have always been good but I’ve poured CDLR with Lignier, Dujac, Ponsot, and others and the Rousseau have been every bit as good (although Rousseau signature still comes across pretty clearly).

Rousseau charmes is really good now, especially 2009-2013. The 2013 Charmes was out of control good when I had it earlier this year.

Out of curiosity (which is destined to be everlasting), what is the “Rousseau signature”?

Rousseau has a certain sappy density of pure fruit. I don’t really get it from any other producer in the same way.

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

and by “sappy density” are we talking “crystalline fruit”? <— going back to the conversation re: meaning of “sappy,” which I always took mean “sap like”, as in “tree sap.”