Maureen Downey Interview

WINE TALK
21

and we really need to get jancis to interview anna wintour.

22

Howard and Berry - see Travis’ and Yaacov’s posts.

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Maureen’s a friend, and like anyone, she has views on the world, which only make conversation over a bottle of wine more interesting! Note that she’s very knowledgeable about many aspects of wine, beyond just fraud. I’m better off having paid for that counsel previously.

Many of us do not regularly encounter people who treat their craft in life beyond drudgery/work, done only to gather up the filthy lucre needed to buy more wine. For her it must be a calling, a mission, something like what doctors or the clergy feel.

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I have had to give testimony in a divorce case regarding valuation, soundness of concerned bottles, and identification of authenticity. I did it for free, but now I see I could have really explored the financial benefits of “expert status”.

26

Surprised there aren’t two ferns in that video.

27

OK, that’s funny!

28

I don’t get it.

29

Go to YouTube and search “between two ferns”. Potentially hours of laughing, if that is your sense of humor.

30

Thanks, Ken. I get it now…

31

Just from a purely technical standpoint, Jancis needs to get herself a MUCH better video crew. The lighting isn’t very good, the camera angles aren’t very pleasant, the edits are brutally abrupt, etc. In this particular video, neither Jancis nor Maureen are shown in a particularly positive or flattering perspective just from the technical perspective. A more competent video and editing crew could easily have produced a vastly superior video product.

Bruce

32

I too am wondering what the fee and certification actually mean. Even Maureen says it is no guarantee of authenticity. Just an indication that the vendor cares. Well that might mean they are using their access to the information to more diligently prevent fakes from passing through their hands. Or it might also mean that it is just business as usual but with a nice logo to reassure the consumer that they are doing the right thing. The latter requires less investment in time and effort, and is likely to have less of a negative impact on volume, at least in the short term. Certification doesn’t mean much unless it is accompanied by testing and inspection. I haven’t heard that that is a part of the program. Is it?

I think Maureen’s motivation lies in reducing the trade in counterfeits. I think she believes that her efforts will help accomplish that. And they may. But it’s not clear that they will. The risk of counterfeiters using her information to refine their techniques is real. And it’s easy to see why some might conclude that she’s simply cashing in on the publicity she got for her work in the Kurniawan case.

33

So the plan is to reduce counterfeiting by creating a concise online database with examples of real and counterfeit bottles that anyone who pays a small fee can access? Brilliant.

34

Maureen makes her money ensuring against and seeking out Counterfiet wine In people’s collections. She says she wants to reduce counterfeits but in doing so effectively puts herself out of a job…

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All kinds of ‘safety’ type of roles come with that tension. Look at the entire information security industry!

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I doubt it. Even if her website takes off and becomes relatively successful, it’s not as if the website will prevent 100% of counterfeiting. At the very least, there will always be the need for someone to go through large/expensive private cellars and conduct a reasonably thorough evaluation of whether the higher-end bottles are authentic or questionable.

Bruce

37

Dennis,

Thanks for posting. Any time you are giving information to a large audience, as much as you are doing so for the correct reasons, it can be used for nefarious aims.
The type and quality of information we will be giving is a broad education about counterfeits, what counterfeiters do, how to spot them, and how to protect buying and selling counterfeits, or against being counterfeited. The examples used will be real-life examples from past counterfeiters, and current things we are finding in the market.
The amount of people that need this information across the globe is significant. The benefits to the industry and consumers in our opinion therefore outweigh any possible assistance we could be giving to would-be counterfeiters.
It is also important to note that there are many small details we will not be putting on the website. Just like a great chef, we will leave out small aspects of the inspection or information we look for that help us determine a real vs a counterfeit bottle. We are also incredibly mindful of producers efforts to add high tech, and low tech, anti-counterfeiting aspects to their packaging, and we will not be sharing this information.
It is an education resource, but it is being carefully crafted so that it is not a how-to for would be counterfeiters.

As far as subsequent posts regarding whether Maureen is putting herself out of a job by creating this resource, I suppose my answer would be in short–no. There are many people, both in the consumer and professional sides that will be aided by this website. The cost is less than one bad purchase per year. And it is not much more or less than hiring one of our experts for an inspection. So we do not view WineFraud.com as a competing business to Chai Consulting services. Instead, we see it as a way to help more people across the globe, than we could help in person.

It is our goal to give the industry and consumers the tools they need to protect their transactions and ultimately create a healthier, more educated, and more transparent marketplace.

Appreciate all the feedback on this thread.

Best,
Kirk Baierlein
Managing Director, WineFraud.com

38

Careful there, the information security industry buys my wine [wow.gif]

And just like publicizing information about defenses and attacks that works doesn’t make it easier for the attacker, I can’t see how publicizing info on fakes would hurt Maureen’s business or make it significantly easier for counterfeiters.

39

SMH. I don’t know what the answer is, but this surely will perpetuate the problem. The analogy to IT doesn’t really work.

The virus/malware vendors don’t license their source code to see what patterns they are searching for.

I think the DRC/Leroy/First Growths of the world owe the market a little more effort in consideration for the great privilege they receive from it. Maybe take a cue from currency producers. The U.S. already has negotiated with Adobe (Photoshop and Acrobat), HP and most scanner vendors, etc. so that currency cannot be scanned or manipulated in photo editing programs. It wouldn’t be too hard for these wineries to leverage this existing anti-counterfeiting infrastructure by simply embedding that 5 point pattern into their labels.

40

Sorry Jody, but labels is just a small part of the anti-counterfeit operation of important domaines. You would also have to stamp out your own bottles as the DRCs and many others have their own unique bottles with their name stamped into them. Then there are the additional security features over the capsules and corks…

So, overall quite some complexity and sunk cost to copy newer wines - except by old-fashioned refilling - but a 1942 or a 1961 - that will always be something of a moving target…