Absolutely agree. So many zins are ‘full bodied’ but tannic structure is pretty rare. They go down easy, and match well with food.
I’ll just speak from my experience of what I’d ask a wine retailer for if I was seeking what you seek:
I want a full bodied red, with lots of dark fruit but low tannin and medium acidity. Minimal to no oak. If there is oak, I prefer it be neutral French oak, not new and not American. I’d also prefer a wine where they tend to pick late.
They may end up giving me a malbec or carmenere… but part of me reads your post as these non wine drinkers approach wine like people who like juice and pop – sweet, fruity and plush, so they may like drinking a high alc, fruit bomb Cali Bordeaux blend that’s aged a few years so the oak and tanning backed off but not so long that the fruit faded, and that decanted long enough to blow off the alcohol heat and just turn into a sweet blackfruit tootsie roll.
Or maybe a Spanish Cab, Garnacha or some other juicy wine.
Perhaps the retailer would hand me a rich Amarone that covers up its existing tannins and acids so well that I am not bothered by them.
There isn’t a perfect answer to this.
For reference: http://winefolly.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/wine-flavor-profiles-red-wine.png#large
Barossa shiraz. Torbreck Runrig if you can afford it!
PS that’s not exactly my idea of nice wine, but I know it’s hugely popular.
Ridge Three Valleys (mostly Zin)
Guigal Cotes du Rhone (or any other good Cotes du Rhone)
Charvin Vin de Pays “á Côte” (50% Grenache and 50& Merlot)
Marietta Old Vine Red
Wine from Sicily from Arianna Occhipinti (but only if they like acidity)
These days I find the Guigal CdR too tannic and extracted in many vintages. I think it’s because it’s now 50% syrah.
The Charvin “A Cote” is a nice wine, and an incredible value. Isn’t that $14 or something like that?
It would be good if Danny could return to clarify.
Well…maybe. or maybe not. I am just thinking about myself here. I don’t like tannins, I really dislike young Cabernet Sauvignon, I need cream and sugar in my coffee or honey in my tea. But man o man, I love acid. Sour Beer, so freaking delicious. The 2010 Weyerbacher Riserva is so sour they had to put a warning label on it. I loved it! Acidic Pinot Noir, Chianti, Barbera is wonderful, whiskey sours are delicious, I am an acid junky.
I just logged in to check the replies, and I am blown away by the helpful community here. Thank you all so much.
general:
-as recommended, i definitely need to pay closer attention to the wines these friends enjoy to tailor my choices. thanks.
-looking for french oak as opposed to american sounds logical, but that could be tedious on a wine-to-wine basis.
-salt: that comment on seasoned steak intrigues me. i will try this personally next time i do steaks.
-barry price: i think i will copy and paste your criteria and ask my local wine retailer for recommendations. that was well-worded.
acidity: i don’t know my friends’ acidity preference.
WINES:
merlot: I remember trying a merlot-dominent bordeaux a decade back and remembered being very smooth. i will have to try that again.
zin: i never thought about this relative to tannins. I always thought it was moderate in tannins. i will have to try again.
pinot: i respect pinots, but the body is too light for me. but my friends in question do seem to like them. the recommendation of a full-bodied california pinot is interesting. I will be on the look out for that.
barbara & carmenere: i haven’t tried these enough to know them. i will look for them. thanks.
malbec: my friends do seem to love these.
thanks again for your comments and recommendations. I will try these and also probe my friends to see which ones are their typical favorites.
This is my first post on wineberserkers, and i am truly amazed at how helpful everyone is. thank you so much!
Frappato from Sicily is very low in tannin and not too acidic. Occhipinti makes a very good frappato.
The Nero d’Avola suggestion seems like a particularly good one to me.
Danny said he’s looking for a full-bodied red, and his friends like malbec. I’d guess that nero d’Avalo and frapatto might be on the light side for this request.
Cru Beaujolais, particularly the warm vintages, such as 2009 and 2015. The likes of Lapierre and Foillard in 2015 are big, full-bodied wines that fill the mouth. They have just enough acid and ripe tannins to give them shape, but they are supple, easy wines.
Some of the Orin Swift wines I think would fit the bill. Definitely more fruit forward to me and lower on the tannins.
Thanks for coming back with clarifications Danny
For the above, maybe a useful approach will be for us to suggest some low acid / middling acid / firm acid wines that you could serve them to help refine what they like / dislike
Certainly Italian Barbera (d’Asti or d’Alba or del Monferrato), should fit the firm acid mould. If you get Accornero, then that might be a good start as it sounds like the bigger end of town is preferred. Braida is another, but can be pricey, though there are plenty of good ‘bigger’ Barberas around.
For middling acidity and low acidity (but bigger reds) I suspect there should be some good examples closer to home, so I’ll defer to those with greater experience of the US. Merlot would seem a good starting point to hit both middling and low acidity, making the comparison useful.
I agree with you on the looking for french vs. American (or Slavonian) oak would get tedious. However one of the joys of wine geekery, is you start to remember the regions and also wineries that tend to use the different types e.g. Rioja used to be mostly American oak, as did Aussie Shiraz, though in time this has changed, however remembering the ones that have switched is easier than trying to remember them all.
regards
Ian
Orin Swift: I have tried one of the lower cost orin swift wines. if i remember correctly, it was full bodied yet soft. Good suggestion. I just wish they were a little lower in price.
Cru Beaujolais, barbara, carmenere, etc are all new to me. i usually don’t venture outside the americas on wine (just because i have trouble reading labels. i know. i should learn more). i am actually excited about this. originally, this was about trying to find wines to bring to events to fit my friends and that i could like. Now, it’s an opportunity to get familiar to new wines that i historically have not tried.
thanks to all for your help and suggestions. it may be a while before i post results from this trial though. but i will do so.
thanks.
He said he anted low tannin. Barbera is low tannin. If he drinks it and decides it’s not what he’s looking for, that’s educational by itself, but he can’t know without trying.
This is getting way too complicated.
As long as it’s over 15% alcohol, they will probably be happy… for more than one reason.
Dan Kravitz
I too would go with the Orin Swift wines - or any other blends that are made in that style. Whether it be The Prisoner or Machete or whatever, they usually are big, bold, rich, and have enough RS to cover up any rough edges. Seriously.
Cheers.
If you can find a Puglia Primitivo, I think it would fit the bill. The Pietraventosa Volere Volare is a lovely wine with a lot of character for very little money.
This is probably a stupid question, but what is “RS”?
I saw that mentioned a couple time earlier in this discussion.