Louis Jadot Clos St. Denis - Domaine Gagey versus Negociant bottlings

[Eric_Lundblad]

Thanks for pointing that out Joel.

It’s a tough situation. On the one hand, you have to respect Jadot’s efforts to give ownership credit where it’s due. Otoh, James is right that you really have to give Jadot a lot of your attention to get it straight…and requiring attention where it’s not critical (assuming the growing/farming of all the various domaine plots are identical) generally isn’t always great strategy. Sigh

[James_Billy]

Because there is no Domaine Jadot version of the Clos St. Denis.

Just for clarification, while there isn’t any ‘Domaine des Héritiers Louis Jadot’ Clos St Denis, there is a ‘Domaine Andre Gagey’ CSD…and many people refer to both of those as Domaine Jadot.

Just to clarify the clarification, in addition to the two domaine names mentioned above, there is also a Domaine Louis Jadot as shown here:
2012 Chapelle Chambertin.jpg
All of the wines from the various domaine bottlings are the domaine (as opposed to the maison) wines of Louis Jadot

I think that’s what I said. Not sure if there is a ‘Domaine Louis Jadot’ CSD.

[Joel_Singer]

I think the conversation moved on from the specifics of the Clos St. Denis bottling to the general question of domaine versus maison/negoce bottlings at Louis Jadot. Specifically for Clos St. Denis, there are only two bottlings: 1) Domaine Andre Gagey and 2) the maison/negoce bottling. You can see a picture of these two different bottles in my December 11th post.

More generally, the thread has been discussing what exactly is meant by a domaine wine from Louis Jadot. A Louis Jadot domaine wine can come from any of the three individual domaines controlled by Jadot: (1) Domaine Louis Jadot; 2) Domaine des Héritiers Louis Jadot or 3) Domaine Andre Gagey.

Yes, I’m something of a geek.

[A_So]

La Maison Louis Jadot contrôle 225 hectares de vignobles en Bourgogne, dont 119 hectares en Côte d’Or :

le Domaine des Héritiers Louis Jadot, le Domaine Louis Jadot, le Domaine Gagey et le Domaine du Duc de Magenta.

Le Domaine des Héritiers Louis Jadot est le domaine historique de la famille Jadot :
Beaune Premier Cru Clos des Ursules
Corton Pougets Grand Cru
Corton Charlemagne Grand Cru
Chevalier Montrachet Les Demoiselles Grand Cru
Beaune Premier Cru Clos des Couchereaux
Beaune Premier Cru Les Boucherottes
Pernand Vergelesses Clos de la Croix de Pierre

Le Domaine Louis Jadot s’est agrandi en 1985 avec l’achat du Domaine Clair Daü
Chambertin Clos de Bèze Grand Cru
Bonnes Mares Grand Cru
Clos Vougeot Grand Cru
Musigny Grand Cru
Chambolle Musigny Premier Cru Les Amoureuses
Gevrey Chambertin Premier Cru Clos Saint Jacques
Corton Grèves Grand Cru
Pernand-Vergelesses Premier Cru Clos de la Croix de Pierre
Savigny les Beaune Premier Cru La Dominode
Meursault Premier Cru Genevrières
Pommard Premier Cru Rugiens
etc.

Le Domaine Gagey appartient à la famille d’André Gagey depuis plusieurs générations
Clos Saint Denis Grand Cru
Echézeaux Grand Cru
Beaune Premier Cru Les Grèves Blanc
Savigny les Beaune Premier Cru Les Guettes
Nuits Saint Georges Premier Cru les Boudots
Beaune Premier Cru les Chouacheux

[Joel_Singer]

Merci beaucoup. C’est assez utile (Thanks very much. This is quite helpful.)

[Peter_Chiu]

Merci beaucoup. C’est assez utile (Thanks very much. This is quite helpful.)

merci…+ 2.

It took me many years to appreciate Jadot’s CdBez…& it is the opposite of Rousseau’s CdBeze ( one is : yum - in Chinese means no sunshine and the other is : young in Chinese means sunshine ).

It was one of my learning - and wonderful experience - to do matching (side-by-side) tastings with the 2 versions of CdBeze from them form many, many vintage years.

Cheers…

Beside his CdBeze my other favourite jadot red is : without any doubt : Clos des Ursules - unbelievable QPR.

[C_Keller]

Learn something new everyday they say. I just learned a lot reading this.

[William_Kelley]

La Maison Louis Jadot contrôle 225 hectares de vignobles en Bourgogne, dont 119 hectares en Côte d’Or :

le Domaine des Héritiers Louis Jadot, le Domaine Louis Jadot, le Domaine Gagey et le Domaine du Duc de Magenta.

Le Domaine des Héritiers Louis Jadot est le domaine historique de la famille Jadot :
Beaune Premier Cru Clos des Ursules
Corton Pougets Grand Cru
Corton Charlemagne Grand Cru
Chevalier Montrachet Les Demoiselles Grand Cru
Beaune Premier Cru Clos des Couchereaux
Beaune Premier Cru Les Boucherottes
Pernand Vergelesses Clos de la Croix de Pierre

Le Domaine Louis Jadot s’est agrandi en 1985 avec l’achat du Domaine Clair Daü
Chambertin Clos de Bèze Grand Cru
Bonnes Mares Grand Cru
Clos Vougeot Grand Cru
Musigny Grand Cru
Chambolle Musigny Premier Cru Les Amoureuses
Gevrey Chambertin Premier Cru Clos Saint Jacques
Corton Grèves Grand Cru
Pernand-Vergelesses Premier Cru Clos de la Croix de Pierre
Savigny les Beaune Premier Cru La Dominode
Meursault Premier Cru Genevrières
Pommard Premier Cru Rugiens
etc.

Le Domaine Gagey appartient à la famille d’André Gagey depuis plusieurs générations
Clos Saint Denis Grand Cru
Echézeaux Grand Cru
Beaune Premier Cru Les Grèves Blanc
Savigny les Beaune Premier Cru Les Guettes
Nuits Saint Georges Premier Cru les Boudots
Beaune Premier Cru les Chouacheux

Just following up on this, as I write up my notes on the 2018s, I see that Jadot own fully 24 hectares in the commune of Beaune!

[Marc_Frontario]

I was on that original referenced thread and did some further research when I found out that the Jadot negoce version of Clos St. Denis is in fact made pretty much every year and exists side-by-side with the Gagey bottling.

At that point I did a detailed audit of my cellar and discovered that the majority of my Jadot Clos St. Denis bottlings- including 14 of the 18 bottles I had of the magical 2012- were in fact negoce and NOT Gagey.

And so I opened a bottle of the negoce 2012 with friends, and while it was very nice- it was a far cry from the Gagey bottling I had tried a couple of years prior. And it was not just about the fact the wine may have shut down in that two year interim- the fruit spectrum was completely different.

At this point I got really ticked off and did some more research- specifically looking up winesearcher offerings to see photos where available from merchants in the US vs Europe, and making phone calls to get info on the specific labels of wines in stock for merchants who had lots of product but no current photos.

I included in my research Joseph Drouhin Corton-Charlemagne which I had also recently discovered came in both Domaine and negociant bottlings.

Following are my findings- not conclusive- but solid enough for me,

1. Based on detailed comments alone it is pretty clear as someone noted above that the Domaine versions of both wines are what the critics taste. Two of the critics I follow do make note in most TNs that they are tasting a Domaine version.

2. NONE of the US retailers I spoke with who sourced their wines via US channels had the Domaine versions for all. All had negoce. The few Gagey bottles I had in hand (I had zero Drouhin CC Domaine in hand- all was negociant) all came from retailers on the West and East coasts who sourced wines in Europe, or from auction lots that came from European collectors.

3. I emailed Drouhin to ask about the difference between the bottles and how to tell (I already knew- but wanted to see what they had to say.) I never got a response.

In conclusion, a significant portion of both of these expensive wines are sold without clarity as to their origins and based on critical TNs for very different bottlings. Further, it appears that at least in the case of Jadot Clos St. Denis, the US is not a usual recipient of the Gagey version via normal distribution- if ever. I have no hard proof the wine is deliberately not distributed here, but enough circumstantial evidence to not want to buy the wines ever again.

In response I sold off all of my Drouhin and Jadot holdings and will never buy again. That may seem extreme, but I am at a time in my life where I have cut my cellar in half so my quantities are more aligned with consumption rates- and to allow room for more backfilling of older vintages of wines I really like.

So to stop doing business with two companies that seem to think we are a bunch of dumb Americans was an easy call.

Interesting, this is new information to me…I went and looked at my stash and I have 4 bottles of the '06 Jadot CSD and it is the Gagey version.

[YLee]

I found this article very interesting for me. Maybe it will be interesting to someone else.

https://www.wine-searcher.com/m/2019/12/making-the-case-for-negociant-burgundy

[MChang]

Was this the older label?

[A_So]

Got the HDH offer on the 2018s today; there’s a specific notation that the CSD is indeed the Domaine Gagey bottling.

Incidentally, the 2018 vintage at Jadot is great, just tasted there last week.

[L_e_o_F_r_o_k_i_c]

Was this the older label?

Yes, this is Domaine wine with a pre 2005 label and bottle. In 2005 they bottled their Grand Crus in heavier, different shapes bottles.

[Nick_Gangas]

Got the HDH offer on the 2018s today; there’s a specific notation that the CSD is indeed the Domaine Gagey bottling.

Incidentally, the 2018 vintage at Jadot is great, just tasted there last week.

I tried a few at the tasting on town 2 weeks ago. Loved the reds. Much better than 17 IMO.

[Gus_Siokis]

Got the HDH offer on the 2018s today; there’s a specific notation that the CSD is indeed the Domaine Gagey bottling.

Incidentally, the 2018 vintage at Jadot is great, just tasted there last week.

Tasted Jadot’s 2018s from barrel last summer. Thought the CSJ was stellar. Were you able to purchase any while visiting?

[A_So]

Got the HDH offer on the 2018s today; there’s a specific notation that the CSD is indeed the Domaine Gagey bottling.

Incidentally, the 2018 vintage at Jadot is great, just tasted there last week.

Tasted Jadot’s 2018s from barrel last summer. Thought the CSJ was stellar. Were you able to purchase any while visiting?

We were never really offered wine for sale at any of the domaines we visited; Jadot is pretty easy to source here, so in any case, I didn’t see the value of lugging a few bottles across the Atlantic myself.

[Tom_Reddick]

Just wanted to update this thread with a new data point. Recently I got my hands on a full UK offering for 2018 Jadot wines, and right there in print were both the Gagey and negociant bottlings, listed separately, with the Gagey version a bit more expensive.

And so I have now seen that at the wholesale level a distinction is very much made. Glad to find this out (or rather confirm it because here or in the other thread I think someone noted this) because it finishes out the puzzle.

In other news, I have noticed of late that many retailers and auction houses are now taking care to point out whether a particular Jadot bottling is negociant or Domaine- which I did not find to be commonly provided information before this and the other related threads got attention. So this and the other thread have done a good thing- something a couple of people ITB who were very quick to put the onus on the consumer/poster should consider in future.

For my part I should also confess that despite being really ticked off, I was not able to stay mad forever and have been picking up CSD (Gagey version only) at very nice prices lately. As this bubble for certain things continues to swell, there are a growing number of burgundy bargains out there. Good Jadot bottlings are a prime example.