Likely Wine Theft- What would you do?

[Jeremy_Holmes]

Don’t buy Bordeaux.

[Anton_D]

That’s ironic, as we were just discussing this in our household. SO’s grandmother had an heirloom ring go missing, and basically the only person who ever accessed their house, was their cleaning person. This same person had been there for 15 years, and had never had anything like this associated with her. Still, family members confronted the cleaner, and she confessed. Apparently she had developed a gambling problem, and assumed an older person would not not notice theft, or do anything about it.

Very sad. That side of the family were never able to recover the ring (cleaning lady had a 16k gambling debt and had sold it for a song) and didn’t have the steel to go with police complaint. Although realistically, in most jurisdictions, I doubt law enforcement would be able to do much.

======

A camera seems like a good idea, superficially. But the problem is this: you would have to discreetly set it up so that it actually captures the person stealing the bottles, and implicitly you are also going to have to sacrifice more theft from your cellar. I don’t know what your expected loss would be from that, but personally, I wouldn’t want more losses if the end game is that you are not willing to file charges with the police. That’s even assuming the police might pursue, and it gets referred for prosecution. (At the very least, some kind of interaction with law enforcement might cause other mischief in their life) In my area, most property crime isn’t a priority. LEO take reports because people need them for potential insurance claims, and it helps the sheriffs determine hot spots for where to station cruisers for deterrence. Perhaps it’s different in your town.

If I was in your shoes, I’d just text the cleaner and tell them their services aren’t needed any more.

You could additionally give careful verbal advice to associates who use them to consider putting internal cameras in their house, with even perhaps some bait, and see what happens. No need for disparagement, especially if you don’t have proof that rises to a courtroom level, but at the same time, giving a hint to friends to be aware is also fair.

You can only be betrayed by someone you trust.

Wait.

Skip the camera to avoid further loss, but tell people you know to accept further
loss and install cameras?

Why do you hate his friends?

[GregT]

He hates everybody and hopes they go away!

Install a camera. If and when the camera catches her stealing a bottle, ask about it and show her the video.

Then fire her and tell her other clients because they’re at risk too.

[R_Frankel]

First, I’d install a lock.

Then, I’d confront the housekeeper. If she admits it, I’d fire her.

If she denies it … I’m not sure what I would do. There ARE other possible thieves. All seem unlikely, but any are possible. I’d probably tell the story to the other suspects and see how they respond. Now everyone knows you suspect mischief, so that alone would probably stop the thievery. If after all this you still think the housekeeper most likely, then go ahead and fire her.

As far as telling her other clients: I don’t think you have any obligation to share this story unless she admits her crime or you have some other proof. Your guess that she is responsible doesn’t seem like enough, to me, to destroy her livelihood. Just not proportional to the damage done to you.

[YLee]

Do nothing until you have solid proof. There’s no need to go around accusing anyone. Even the mere fact of discussing it with cleaning lady will ruin the relationship. Install hidden cameras. 4k cameras are not expensive.

[Ian_S]

invite her to a 2005 Bordeaux tasting and see what she brings.

[TGigante]

Do nothing until you have solid proof. There’s no need to go around accusing anyone. Even the mere fact of discussing it with cleaning lady will ruin the relationship. Install hidden cameras. 4k cameras are not expensive.

This
Would be pretty embarrassing to confront the cleaning lady and then find out Uncle Ernie and Auntie Gin were the Bordeaux guzzlers

Odds are best it is the cleaning lady as she has the most unfettered access but its not always the most obvious person

[Steve_Heydemann]

Despite reservations about a camera that seems to be the second best option. First best option is to lock the cellar. I have a so-called “janitor’s lock” on my cellar door - insulated steel door. It requires a key from the outside but cannot be locked from the inside. No way to be locked in (for better, or maybe for worse).

Just telling your cleaning person that she is no longer going to clean the cellar may be enough to give you the information you need to make a call. But for me, once trust is broken, it’s hard to imagine feeling good about having that person in your house.

[Victor_Hong]

Don’t buy Bordeaux.

Buy Australian red ooze-monsters. Capital punishment, for sure.

[Anton_D]

invite her to a 2005 Bordeaux tasting and see what she brings.

Loved that!

Also, check her Cellar Tracker notes. See if it fits her profile or if she slipped up and made a note about your wine.

[Gary_York]

Might want to check CC and see if she is trying to move the bottles.

[Victor_Hong]

Ouch.

[dcornutt]

Wireless tags has a tag that will alert you if a door is opened. If you can’t put a camera in that would tell you immediately when someone opened your cellar door. At least you could identify who was at your house when the door has been opened.

These are very sensitive motion detectors and the events are logged. This would be an inexpensive way for surveillance. I would lock the cellar and not give her the key.

[Mike_Maguire]

I would just lock it.

This

[John_Morris]

Do nothing until you have solid proof. There’s no need to go around accusing anyone. Even the mere fact of discussing it with cleaning lady will ruin the relationship. Install hidden cameras. 4k cameras are not expensive.

It’s not fair to you or the cleaning lady to let her go without proof and without explanation. You’d all be left wondering what the real story is, and you may have regrets and doubts after her long service. Much better to put in a camera or the motion sensor and know for sure.

[TGigante]

I would just lock it.

This

Locking the cellar moves the issue to other parts of the house. Lock up everything in the house?
You need to know exactly what is going on in the premises.

[John_Davis]

Get a camera.

[David_Glasser]

Another vote for a camera before doing anything else.

[Arv_R]

That’s ironic, as we were just discussing this in our household. SO’s grandmother had an heirloom ring go missing, and basically the only person who ever accessed their house, was their cleaning person. This same person had been there for 15 years, and had never had anything like this associated with her. Still, family members confronted the cleaner, and she confessed. Apparently she had developed a gambling problem, and assumed an older person would not not notice theft, or do anything about it.

Very sad. That side of the family were never able to recover the ring (cleaning lady had a 16k gambling debt and had sold it for a song) and didn’t have the steel to go with police complaint. Although realistically, in most jurisdictions, I doubt law enforcement would be able to do much.

======

A camera seems like a good idea, superficially. But the problem is this: you would have to discreetly set it up so that it actually captures the person stealing the bottles, and implicitly you are also going to have to sacrifice more theft from your cellar. I don’t know what your expected loss would be from that, but personally, I wouldn’t want more losses if the end game is that you are not willing to file charges with the police. That’s even assuming the police might pursue, and it gets referred for prosecution. (At the very least, some kind of interaction with law enforcement might cause other mischief in their life) In my area, most property crime isn’t a priority. LEO take reports because people need them for potential insurance claims, and it helps the sheriffs determine hot spots for where to station cruisers for deterrence. Perhaps it’s different in your town.

If I was in your shoes, I’d just text the cleaner and tell them their services aren’t needed any more.

You could additionally give careful verbal advice to associates who use them to consider putting internal cameras in their house, with even perhaps some bait, and see what happens. No need for disparagement, especially if you don’t have proof that rises to a courtroom level, but at the same time, giving a hint to friends to be aware is also fair.

You can only be betrayed by someone you trust.

Wait.

Skip the camera to avoid further loss, but tell people you know to accept further
loss and install cameras?

Why do you hate his friends?

Sorry I should have been more clear with my suggestion:

• Release them for further service via text. The reason for that is to avoid a confrontation in your house. Even if it may feel emotionally satisfying, you don’t really know what someone might do at the time…or afterwards. Some of you might remember that recent case of a Conn. woman killed by her gardener after she confronted him about missing items.
  Afterwards just tell mutual ‘employers’ that you are no longer using the services of this person. And add that they might consider installing cameras (and maybe leaving bait out if you think that gets the point across) That is factual and people can make their own determination as to what course to pursue. Do it verbally, not via email.
  I think its madness to allow someone into the house in any capacity if you have real reason to believe they are stealing. Locking the cellar door? They can just take something else.
  Also it will be expensive, but you’ll have to get all your house locks re-keyed. It cost me about $500 to do that once. Unf, if the cleaner knows they are never coming back, they have plenty of incentive to tip off burglars as to what fence-able valuables might in your home, and provide a key along with your likely schedule.

This whole idea of ‘not hurting their livelihood’ is BS that I totally reject. If someone has stolen from a client of two decades THEY are the one who has torched that relationship. And if someone is stealing from one client, they’re not stopping there. They have some issue - gambling, drugs, etc. - that is driving this behavior.

One additional irritant about reporting property theft is that it is not only unlikely to be addressed by local police / prosecutors…but it will then eventually get logged into an insurance database -Comprehensive Loss Underwriting Experience (CLUE). That is mapped onto land parcels, not people, and can mean that even if the loss is under the deductible, and no claim was ever even made, one’s home insurance rates can go up since underwriting models generally believe ‘frequency leads to severity’.

[Arv_R]

Do nothing until you have solid proof. There’s no need to go around accusing anyone. Even the mere fact of discussing it with cleaning lady will ruin the relationship. Install hidden cameras. 4k cameras are not expensive.

It’s not fair to you or the cleaning lady to let her go without proof and without explanation. You’d all be left wondering what the real story is, and you may have regrets and doubts after her long service. Much better to put in a camera or the motion sensor and know for sure.

I think you’re imposing some kind of standard that will stand up to a couple levels of judicial review! This is an at will casual labor situation, you don’t need to provide an explanation.

We went through something similar in the distant past. Our chapter house had a cook with a key, and anytime someone bought a nice bike or stereo, it would go missing fairly shortly afterwards. This was before the era of cheap/easy cameras so no tech solutions for catching anyone. They ended up letting the cook go - for other reasons - and amazingly enough all the constant stream of high value targeted thefts stopped.

OP can see if they continue to have losses after the cleaner is gone. If so, they’ll know they were wrong, and the ‘leak’ hasn’t been plugged. They can go back to the cleaner, hat in hand, and apologize in that situation.

But I doubt that is the result.