Let's talk trocken

I have a dearth of dry German riesling in my collection, with the exception of a couple GGs and a good assortment of trocken wines from one producer (Martin Mullen). I’m interested in finding more trocken wines that offer similar pleasure and ability to develop complexity with age as GGs, but without the entry price point that seems to keep creeping higher with each vintage. What are you drinking?

Trimbach CFE! 2008 just hitting its stride now.

I don’t recall seeing them mentioned on here, but when I want to spend less than a typical GG, I’m fan of Markus Molitor’s white capsules, although, I’m not sure how they age. Does anyone else like these?

I’ll be watching this thread with interest; I’ve yet to have a non-GG German trocken that was, qualitatively, “up there” with the GGs. Granted, my experience is limited.

You´ve not had any Austrian Riesling Samaragds and equivalents? (and don´t say they are not "up there to German GGs - that would be wrong).
That´s also a rec…

My comment was strictly re: German wines.

In this case you have to look for the Ortswein which cost around 15 Euro or cheaper. Every Top estate makes great Ortsweine, but not only Top estates, also the estates in the 2n or 2rd rang make great Riesling trocken in this 10-15 Euro price range. We have so many great also young winemakers who make fine Rieslings these days. Its such easy to find well-made wines.

For further recommendations I have to look in my notes and photo gallery. Stay tuned…

I’m not as big a fan of Markus Molitor wines for this reason. When I tasted the 2016 lineup a couple years back, I got the impression that they were pleasurable for drinking early, but didn’t get the sense that they would gain much complexity or age well.

Baron von Knyphausen Royal Blue Auslese (well, it’sn not officially trocken, since it is 11,8 g/l in RS). Not a GG but more impressive than almost any of them.

Unfortunately only 339 bottles were made, so it might be hard to get your hands on 'em.

Any Thörle and Diel Trocken Rieslings above the entry level are consistently excellent. Dr. Bürklin-Wolf makes great non-GG stuff, but their Premier Cru wines tend to be priced at the same level than GG wines and their Grand Cru wines are well above most GG wines.

Wittmann and Peter Jakob Kühn tend to make solid dry Rieslings as well.

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Producers/wines I am fond of for GG and GG-style wines that I have not seen mentioned above…

Leitz Rudesheimer Berg Rottland Hinterhaus is probably my favorite year after year. Way back in 2007 Leitz also released a Trocken Gold Kap Alte Reben from this site that was and continues to be epic!

von Winning has done some non-GG trockens (Paradiesgarten) that are great value.

Burklin-Wolf Altenberg

And yes, explore Austria. Reliably dry Riesling with (often) a little more body than most Germans.

I mentioned Bürklin-Wolf in the literally previous reply.

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Sorry…I was already in the reply page when you posted…I took a long time to write (had to get coffee).

No need to get offended.

That’s why WB usually shows all the replies that have been posted between pressing buttons “reply” and “submit”.

And I wasn’t offended. I just like to point out when and where people are wrong. neener

Yeah…I ignore those “someone has already posted” notices.

Because I really don’t care that much. :wink:

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Seems like the theme is to check Austria. I’ve had very limited experience, mostly with Prager Smaragd, which I liked though were pretty austere on release. Any vintages with some age on them that are drinking well now, and may still be found on the market?

I’ll check out the Leitz, thanks for the tip!

I still see 2013s on the market from good Austrian producers (great vintage). No harm in trying young wines as well. Check out some Gruner Veltliner while you are at it. You might like it.

Hiedler is really good value in Austrian wine. Alzinger Rieslings are gorgeous. Lots of options. The Terry Theise catalog has good info about producers (from his portfolio) as well as vintages and styles.

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It is fun to watch you go down the Riesling Rabbit Hole!

I think what you are really asking is how can I find wines of similar quality to the top GGs (ie, Dönnhoff, Keller, Schafer-Fröhlich etc.) at lower prices?

I will offer some general strategies:

1.) Look outside the VDP - Weiser-Künstler, Koehler-Ruprecht and Martin Mullen who you know well are just three examples

2.) Austria - I started my dry Riesling obsession with Austria because at the time there was not as much good dry German wine in the U.S… This would have been in early 2000s. Remarkably as I have seen the top GGs double, triple and go up even more the top Austrians have stayed at relatively the same prices. And some producers dialed things back a bit so they are not as over-the-top as the were in the past.

3.) RS - Don’t get so hung up on the legal definition of Trocken. Keller’s KR bottling is a GG with just a tad more sugar (11 grams) than is allowed in a GG but it is from Kirschspiel and is 1/4 the current going price of the GG

4.) Look for up and coming producers who are in the VDP that are not the rockstars or from areas not known for dry GGs - I have recently had two wines from the Württemberg area, an area not know for top dry GGs that were outstanding an especially for the price. One was by Jochen Beurer who in my opinion makes dry GGs that are in the same league as the top echelon producers. The other wine was the Dautel Steingrüben not yet at the same level as the Beurer wines but very good and young second generation winemaker is at the helm.

5.) Declassified GGs - In great years go long on Trocken wines from declassified GG fruit. 2018 Keller Von der Fels is a case book example - KP declassified more GG fruit than usual because he wanted to make the best GG’s possible and also so more people could experience his wines in the more affordable higher production Von der Fels. It is easily a 10-15 year wine and approximately $35

There you go some of my secrets…


Yes it’s quite the rabbit hole. And what I’m asking is exactly as you say. As always Robert, I appreciate the tips :slight_smile:

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Opened a 1990 Burklin-Wolf Ruppertsberg Gaisbohl Spatlese Trocken a couple of days ago. Best Riesling I’ve had in a year.

I have become a really big fan of what Von Winning has been offering at all levels.

Austria is my go to for truly trocken riesling. A different profile for sure but to my liking. Hertzberger is a perennial favorite among many others.