have really enjoyed the Trinchero Barbera d’Asti Vigna del Noce
They’re probably the right ones for me! I want a high toned, acidic Barbera which isn’t at all sexed up with oak, overextraction, or Napaesque ripeness. I absolutely don’t want a Barbera with pretensions of profundity; I want something that goes great with a wide range of possible dinners in an emphatically supporting role, a bottle which is probably pretty resistant to being drunk without food. I’m even more of a total neophyte with Barbera than wine generally; but feel pretty sure about what I’ve liked, disliked, and seek from this variety.
Over the last year or two I really didn’t like Barberas from Vajra or (especially) Grasso (Vigna Martina) - they struck me as overdone, and kind of generically international - but dug an apparently humbler one from Ca’ Bianca - “Barbera d’Asti Superiore Chersì” which was a mouth-puckering-in-a-good-way and, so say my notes, just perfect with spicy meatballs in red sauce and an assortment of other chow.
So just having a list of “recommended Barbera producers” seems less useful to me than some stylistic guidelines/descriptions.
Who makes perfect tangy cheap & cheerful supporting-role Barbera, something that can fill a similar role for me as say Guion’s Bourgueils? Are there generalizations that could help - e.g. have I heard that the ones from Asti are generally higher acidity than Alba?
As far as everyday Piedmont wines are concerned, I much prefer Dolcetto.
Love that too. I suspect some people consider the bitter edge a flaw; to me, it’s (desirable) character - as is enamel-stripping acid in a Barbera.
Sounds like you lean toward Barbera d’Asti. And jeez, the guy gave you a list. It is up to you to figure it out.
Thanks for confirming (I think) that Asti = acid, Gary.
But, come on, “gave you a list”? What does a listing with no criteria or descriptions tell us - that at least one person liked each of these?
The OP’s Barolo producer list, by contrast, to me conveys more useful information, in broadly classifying producers by degree of traditional winemaking.
It is called exploring wine. Use the internet, read some books and newspapers, follow a critic, go to some tasting, buy a few bottles and pull some corks, go to the region. I promise it won’t hurt too much.
What about Sierra Foothills Barbera? I’ve had a couple of decent bottles from that region, but I can’t recall the wineries - maybe they weren’t all that memorable eh?
I’m not sure if you are trying to goad me into making a more comprehensive list or just complaining generally. Three things might be somewhat helpful. First, as pointed out already and on one of the linked threads, Asti tends to be more acid-driven while Alba tends to experience more oak. There are, of course, exceptions.
Second, you can cross reference the producers of Barbera listed here with the Barolo/Barbaresco producers in my other thread. I believe all of the Barbera producers can be found there. I’m pretty confident that a Modern nebbiolo producer is going to make a Barbera with the same approach (e.g. Altare and La Spinetta). I’m not certain you can make the reverse claim, but it is a starting point.
Third, using the producers listed in the OP, you can also search through this and the two other threads linked within this one to find the context of the recommendation, if any was provided.
I’m not up for making another mega list of all producers (you have no idea how much time I sunk into that). If I choose to sort them into categories for my own use, I will edit the OP accordingly. Alternatively, if someone else does this work, I’ll gladly edit the OP to include it.
Where in Piedmont are the Sierra foothills located?
I would add the Barbera d’Alba from Matteo Correggia to the list. Gulpable and under $20.
Have enjoyed several of those already on the list. In addition:
Cavallotto Barbera d’Alba Bricco Boschis Vigna del Cuculo (had an '04 two weeks ago, great fun, great wine)
Oddero Barbera d’Asti Vinchio (as a rule, I prefer my Barbera from Asti, and particularly enjoy the ones from the high vineyards in Vinchio)
Cascina Chicco Barbera d’Alba Bric Loira
Icardi produces a reliable value label ‘Tabaren’/‘Tabarin’ that I’ve enjoyed for over a decade - some vintages way over-deliver
My favorite by far is Michele Chiarlo La Court. It does see some barrique, but I always find the oak to be extremely well integrated, and it ages well for 10+ years in good vintages. I always wonder if the people who say Barbera can’t be great wine have tried the '01 or '04 or one of several others with a few years on them.
+1 Though I prefer the simple barbera made in stainless steel tanks, an older, “more important” (some oak) version can be quite nice… Of course the very best old barbera I have ever tasted was a 1959 Martini “Mountian Barbera” from Cali!
Guess I’m just bitching generally. You certainly don’t owe me a better list, or much of anything.
I just don’t understand the value in throwing out producer names by themselves & accumulating a list of them. Everyone rails against isolated point scores for wines (even those of us who think they’re useful in the context of a fuller tasting note, not just pure evil) - to me, this is similar, but on two counts less useful:
(a) the scores are only 1 or 0 (on/off the list) so it’s less information
(b) it’s by committee so one lacks the context of knowing the taster’s palate
What I’d really appreciate would be comments about a producer’s style, a little blurb for why a producer or bottling is being recommended. Here’s an example - isn’t this is so much more useful than just “Vietti”?
Maybe I’m in the tiny minority here, and others find such a list more useful, either because they find their tastes so inclusive that they enjoy every wine recommended by any berserker; or because as Gary suggests, the utility of WB isn’t to actually, ya know, discuss the wines and learn from others with vastly more experience, but rather to obtain one’s assigned list of producers and then investigate them elsewhere such as the printed media and other websites.
Anyway, thanks for your response and for starting the thread. I agree, your “3 helpful things” are, and I hadn’t noticed Jay T’s links to the other threads, so thanks too for that.
Had one some years ago from C.G. di Arie (“the developer of Cap’n Crunch, turned winemaker”), Amador County:
Nice, and exactly what I’d expect and want from a competent CA bottling of an Italian variety. It’s like 1/3 Italian tang and character, 2/3 New World smooth & lush - making it more approachable without food and/or for casual wine drinkers. Had this before eating, then served a Dolcetto and a Barolo with Piedmontese food, and the difference in terroir and winemaking approach was beyond obvious.
I’ve long had Palmina on my radar as supposedly a top CA producer for Italian varieties, but have never gotten around to trying one. I generally prefer the Italian interpretations of Italian wines - except when they seem to be trying to lose and accent and speak internationally.
This is not a complaint against anyone, or a demand that anyone do anything for me, but I completely agree with Chuck in terms of what is helpful to the person trying to learn from the thread. When you have a “what are good Barolo producers?” thread, and each response is just an unannotated list of 1-20 producer names, it doesn’t really advance the ball, other than maybe if you look through it and notice certain names appearing at high frequency, maybe you take some small notion from that.
Again, that’s not a complaint or a demand, just a perspective on what ends up being of use to the reader. And I know people write responses (as opposed to not writing anything) in an earnest desire to be helpful and create quality discussion.
I had the 2010 Vajra regular over the weekend. Very nice wine. Popped and poured. Smooth round red fruit and herbs. There was an interesting floral component, almost violet, and wood that was somewhere between cedar and oak. Not exactly a religious experience, but an excellent wine. Got better with some air.
I also think this is a mostly legitimate point, but it’s a lot easier to just list some producers/wines that you like than to try to describe the style of a wine to someone who lacks much context with the variety. At the end of the day, other than generalizations about things like acid, oak, tannin, and vinification, you have to get into a pretty deep discussion to get to a place to recommend a wine to someone in a truly helpful way.
Also, I’m not that sure that tasting notes are that helpful to people who don’t already have a lot of experience with similar wines. For example, I wonder if someone who has only drunk pinot noir a few times will have any actual idea of what a 1990 Romanée-Conti La Tâche will taste like based on a tasting note posted here. I know that I – as a relative Burgundy novice – basically have no idea what that La Tâche will taste like – having never tasted it from any vintage – even though I’ve probably tasted 1000 different California pinots and 100 different red burgundies and read lots of tasting notes. My belief that I would probably really enjoy that La Tâche is based more on the almost overwhelming consensus that it is a great wine. So to the extent there is any consensus about great Barberas, I think that is probably as useful to a novice as anything.
Not that we shouldn’t try harder.
The Sierra foothills are located in eastern California, more precisely in Amador, Calaveras, El Dorado, Mariposa, Nevada, Placer, Tuolumme, and Yuba Counties. If you followed your own advice
I’m sure you could figure that one out.
The OP did not specify Piedmont. In addition to the better known Barbera d’Alba and Barbera d’Asti appellations there is a lot of Barbera del Monferrato from both Asti and Alessandria provinces, often lighter and simpler, even frizzante, but better examples from areas not covered by Barbera d’Asti can be every bit as good and often great value.
Moreover, Barbera is widely planted in Lombardy and Emilia-Romagna and can be found in appellations like Oltrepo Pavese and Colli Piacentini, but mostly in wines without DOC status. Barbera is also found in many regions in the south, but mainly used as a blending variety.
Edit: The variety is, or at least recently was, the third most planted in Italy. It is found in many new world regions where Italians have immigrated, not only California.
What use is such a list?
If someone is looking to ‘dip their toe in the water’ then (like Hugh Johnson’s pocket book), I can see great value in someone saying “taste this, I think it’s interesting”.
One we tasted recently that really impressed, was a 2011 Franco Boasso (aka Gabutti) Barbera d’Alba. ~ $9 at cellar door, had we the space in the luggage I would have bought a case of it.
I’ve tended to like the souper-duper over-oaked versions (quite against my normal principles) feeling that Barbera really does suit a heavy oaking. Although I’m still not a great fan of steel-aged Barbera, I’m growing to like those with more gentle oaking.
Don’t forget Monferrato region, as there are some great versions there, that presumably get 1st dibs on the best dirt (rather than nebbiolo in the B&B regions)
These comments from a thread in May mostly sum it up for me. I prefer lighter Barberas from Asti or Monferrato, aged in cement or sometimes old, large casks.
Barbera to me is fresh and somewhat simple, nothing wrong with that, I used to drink quite a a lot but now find it a little banal and boring. As some have said, good food wine when wine is not the focus. Attempts to make it a big and serious wine have very limited appeal, the variety does not have enough complexity to make an intriguing big wine and does not develop much tertiary flavors or aromas with age.
One big Barbera I have really enjoyed, made from old vines in an overripe style, lush and powerful but with Barbera acidity and some structure from oak without being overtly oaky: BARBERA D’ALBA CODANA or maybe called CODAMONTE now from Giuseppe Mascarello.