Les Amoureuses: pricing question and recommendation

WINE TALK
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I find myself enjoying Chambolle-Musigny but have only really drunk Village level wines.

I would like to try a couple of bottles of Les Amoureuses and had a few questions for the Burgundy folks here. I know there are many more C-M 1-er cru but for reasons not really important or exciting to explain I am aiming to try this particular vineyard.

  1. The price range is really wide across all the various producers who have vines there. I am curious if it is the quality of the wines which gives the disparity or are some producers like Roumier just charging way more based on clout? Seems that market forces would tighten such a large spread but I am not certain in this case. Anyway, I am personally not comfortable drinking a bottle that costs what a Roumier would but I also don’t want to pick based on cost alone and miss out on what I am looking for. I know these are not value wines but I suspect some of the less well known winemakers are making good wine from their parcels.

  2. I would welcome a recommendation on which vintage to try first. I prefer something relatively recent (? 2014+) for a few reasons: The older vintages tend to be more pricey and I would prefer not to get bottles that may have provenance issues. Having said that, I understand that many of the more recent wines have not nearly come into their stride but I do want to get a sense of the climat from a couple of bottles. I figure a more forward vintage might fit the bill, although I would prefer less alcoholic vintages (<14%). I can always buy a vintage that demands a longer aging time once I knew that I actually like the wine.

Thanks so much,

es

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  1. What Chambolle producers have you enjoyed? Style makes a lot of difference.
  2. I think the price differential among the Amoureuses producers is often justified.
  3. 2010, 2002 or 2007 would be my suggestions, though my recent 2002 Drouhin experiences across several vineyards have been oddly green. But, again, depends on what the producer.
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Good point, Greg. I tend to like bottles with more finesse, like Drouhin would be a good example but I’m not wed to anyone in particular. I trend toward nuance over muscle. Also, not a fan of non-judicious use of new and toasted oak in any wine. I know over time that will integrate but for more recent vintages maybe that could be a factor in my choice.

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I had a 2008 Drouhin Amoureuses a couple of years ago that was wonderful. I haven’t checked prices, but because not everyone is thrilled with 08’s, it might be in a more reasonable range than other vintages.

(also just one note to mention on your original post–Roumier and other producers aren’t causing the price disparity and the crazy prices that you are seeing. Almost all of it occurs after the wine leaves the producers’ hands.)

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Jadot used to be a value play, but that has crept up to $400ish. An alternative might be Bertheau or go Drouhin for a hundred more.

This turned up during a search

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If you like Drouhin’s Chambolles generally, I would suggest getting Drouhin’s Amoureuses. Whose particular Chambolles have you enjoyed?

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I have had theirs as well as Hudelot-Noellat village level CM wines that I enjoyed. H-N does not make an Amoureuses. Are there others with similar style who do?

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I’d say your best bet is Drouhin or a cooler vintage Bertheau. Warmer vintage Bertheau can be more variable. Assuming you want something with a bit of age, I would generally avoid 2011 and 2016 (which is a particularly difficult Chambolle vintage due to hail).

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Thank you. That points me in the right direction.

es

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I guess the ideal wine to try would be 2007 Mugnier - but that is a financial question.
2007 Drouhin or Jadot are also a good bet …
however IF you can find Herve Roumier (a relative of Georges R. who also makes a fine exmple) :+1:
also Amiot-Servelle in a softer vintage …

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I think the Drouhin suggestion is a good one. But I recommend you also buy a Drouhin CM 1er cru from the same vintage and drink them at the same time so you can appreciate the differences.

Or try the same exercise with another producer, maybe Bertheau or Amiot-Servile or Mugnier if you can bear the tariff.

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That’s a great suggestion Maureen!

es

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Good advice. I opened a 2008 Drouhin Bonnes Mares earlier this year which showed beautifully. I’d guess that the Amoureuses would perform similarly.

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  1. yes, Roumier prices are based on the trophy value of the label, and in the case of Amoureuses, rarity - don’t think I ever encountered one even when Roumier was cheap. You do not need to pay for Roumier to get a top Amoureuses. FWIW, while I never had Roumier’s Amoureuses I had the rarer Musigny once and the Musigny it reminded me of the most was Jadot’s, who also makes a terrific Amoureuses. Going by price would be a mistake. Vogue Amoureuses is very expensive and many of us would be perfectly happy never drinking Vogue.

  2. I would see what you can get in 2020 as they come out. Better to drink the new vintage than one that’s had a couple of years to lose its primary appeal but not enough time to actually improve. Also, Amoureuses is a super-pretty wine that always shows well young. Jadot as mentioned is the top value. Drouhin makes a great Amoureuses at maybe twice the price of Jadot’s but still well short of the Roumier/Mugnier trophies, and is not a lesser producer. I wouldn’t ignore the negociants either. Patrice Rion’s & Frederic Magnien’s negociant labels both make quality Amoureuses.

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Keith. That is really helpful information. From reading your CT notes for a long while, I appreciate the detailed reply as I have found our preferences to be similar.

es

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This is exactly the right exercise IMHO. I love the Drouhin Amoureuses, but the price difference between that and the 1er cru Chambolle these days is much greater than the qualitative difference due to the rarity/fame factor. It actually plays in both directions here because I think most non-designated 1er cru bottlings are undervalued compared to all single vineyard versions- regardless of the fame of the single vineyard version- and Drouhin makes one of the finest Chambolle 1er crus of them all.

Anyhow- that is the best way I know of to decide if you really love Amoureuses enough to pay the premium it commands these days.

As for Amoureuses in general- I love it because the examples I consider the finest (Roumier, Drouhin and Jadot) have both the incredible level of breed and detail of a grand cru, but also a generous dose of slightly unruly sauvage and general earthiness that make them very approachable and also quite versatile with food. While a great Amoureuses can be a fine partner with a grand dinner- I personally prefer to savor it over a simple boeuf bourguignon or steak frites.

For my palate, Roumier and Drouhin make the greatest versions as they have a perfect combo of the dueling ideals I note above. Jadot comes closely after, very closely, being a tad more stern and classic on the palate but aromatically just as great.

The other versions I have tried- including most notably Groffier and Mugnier- just are not as exciting to me. They are bigger and more polished, which aids them in large wine tastings, but for a simple setting dedicated to the wine itself they are just not quite as interesting as my favorites.

Roumier in the US has long been the most difficult to obtain. Even back in the glory days of the mid 90s to early 2000s when I got a case of Bonnes Mares and 4 Musigny every year- I never got more than 3 Amoureuses and usually just 1 or 2. Others had to come from the secondary market. And back then Amoureuses was priced about the same as Bonnes-Mares, $80-200ish over that period of time, while Musigny was at least 50% higher. I suspect the price difference means more Amoureuses stayed in Europe as back then the wines were considered qualitatively similar (which they are- Musigny’s advantage being sheer scale if one cares more for that attribute) leaving Musigny a bit pricey and Amoureuses rather a steal.

Point being, the wine has always been scarce and in the current market it will be nearly impossible to get in with a merchant who is going to sell it at a standard markup. There are merchants who still do- but I imagine that waiting list is longer than Screaming Eagle. So unless you are in for $3K+ a bottle, best to just skip it altogether- especially since the high trading frequency of the wine these days means bottles in circulation are inherently more risky.

The Jadot version is wonderful and even at the $400ish I paid for the 2020, one of the best deals in Burgundy, but it can be perilous to open a Jadot of this caliber young as even at release the wine can be very tight. All the more risky with Amoureuses since the wine relies more on aromatics than volume as its hallmark. So your best bet is to find an older bottle- I would say 2008 or prior to be safe. I was actually going to check in on the 2012 this spring, a spectacular vintage for Jadot, but a recently very tight bottle of one of their Beaunes has me thinking the Amoureuses might need another 5-10 years before checking in. The 2020 might be showing well- I am considering giving that one a try- but I need to try some more entry level wines first and would suggest you do the same if you go that route with Amoureuses.

That leaves the Drouhin and I can tell you the 2017 is absolutely spectacular and was showing beautifully not too long ago. This is the one I would most heartily recommend right now unless you have access to a 2008 or older version at a good price that is well provenanced. The 2014 is surprisingly restrained at the moment and not one I would suggest. Any other young vintage is likely shut down at this point except maybe the 2020 which is $800+ this year, a record release price and $150 more than the 2017.

All IMHO- there are many who will disagree quite strongly with my rankings of this wine’s primary producers.

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For what it’s worth, in a recent tasting of Amoureuses from a number of producers (07, 09 and 13 vintages)

  • Mugnier stood out as the most representative of everything people look for in Chambolle and Amoureuses. Worth the tariff
  • Roumier, whilst it’s very well made, requires a lot more time for everything to integrate and at least on the night, wasn’t matching up to the Mugnier. Maybe not worth the tariff
  • Drouhin was the best bang for buck and came closest to the Mugnier for enjoyment on the night. I’d say this is a great entry point
  • Bertheau was good if you’re looking for something a bit more on the ethereal side, but perhaps won’t have the longest aging potential
  • Groffier (older vintage, newer style might be different) and Vogue were left far behind by the front pack
  • The cooler/less hyped vintages performed better from a drinking standpoint today, 07 and 13 won’t disappoint

The other producer I’d add that had an interesting Amoureuses (but not in the tasting above) is Domaine Roblot

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To add a bit more color to my advice:

  1. Mugnier is the best producer of Amoureuses. Sadly, the price reflects this, and I read the question to be price sensitive. If price is no object, then Mugnier is a no brainer. I’ve seen references to Mugnier being more structured or less interesting, and I think this is the view of Mugnier before 2000 - don’t buy those wines. Mugnier makes a colossal leap around that time.
  2. I don’t disagree with @Tom_Reddick that 1er cru Chambolle is potentially a better value, but the OP asked for Amoureuses. So here we are.
  3. I think I saw someone compare Mugnier and Groffier, and I genuinely can’t think of two more different producers from a stylistic perspective.

But, of course, YMMV!

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Maureen & Tom’s rec of the Drouhin 1er Cru is a very good one, because it could easily be confused for Amoureuses. I don’t know if I’d want to dilute the Amoureuses experience by having them together but I’d definitely urge trying the 1er in advance.

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Another thumbs-up for Drouhin Amiureuses, here. I can’t say it’s quintessential Amoureueses for everyone, but it is for me.

I have more Bertheau Amoureuses than all other makers combined, because it’s always been at least very good, and reasonably priced, and I had access through a good merchant. I think they’d also be a good choice.

I’d select against Amiot Servelle and Groffier unless there are recent stylistic changes I’m not aware of. Also most negociants (I think both Drouhin and Jadot own their own vines)

I have some Pousse d’Or, but haven’t tried it yet. Anyone else have an opinion?

Of course, I’d choose Mugnier and Roumier over the others, but I’ve had limited exposure to the former, and never had the latter.

Enjoy!

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