Legit bottle?

You can’t write over the volume. It would be legally incorrect.
Ignorance of the law.
If what you say is true, you could write over vintage as well.

I think I may see where is some misunderstanding, and offer this post in the hopes it is helpful.

Looking at the Chave main label, the only aspects that would limit the use of it to particular bottle are the notation of alcohol % and also the volume of the contents. Assuming those two factors remain the same for a given wine, the label can be legally and properly used across multiple vintages. Given that alcohol percentages are often rounded to the nearest 0.5%, that does not leave all that many permutations to contend with.

And so assuming the magnum in question is legitimate (which I cannot determine without seeing it in person- but on a cursory inspection I do not see any glaring issues), here is what very possibly happened (I personally would say very likely),

I learned when I founded my side business in men’s accessories that legally compliant and aesthetically pleasant labelling is expensive. The basic setup costs for a template/die can run into the thousands of dollars, and from there the more labels you print- and in round numbered quantities- the less expensive they are. Every time you change a template, you spend a lot of money. And for what labels cost, it is best to use them up in full if you can before moving on to the next set. I spent a couple of months working carefully to get the fewest number of dies/templates possible for Norlin branded labels and hardware- and used them across products wherever possible. It makes a big difference.

So you are a winemaker. Every year, you produce 20,000 bottles of wine and 500 magnums. Let’s say you order 20,000 750ml labels every year- easy thing. But you might order 1,000 magnum labels to get a price break that- at those low quantities- could make the cost of those 1,000 labels not far different from what it would cost to only have 500 printed (yes it can be that big of a price break when you go from 100s to 1000s.)

It is now time for a label change. Relative to your production of regular sized bottles, you do not have enough leftover 750 labels to merit mixing them in with the new- or maybe the alcohol % changed this year- and so you toss them and move to the new labels.

But for the magnums- you also labels leftover, and the alcohol volume is the same this year- and so yes it would make sense to use those old style labels until they run out- before printing new ones. That may sound petty- but wine is a manufacturing business same as any other, and making lots of little cost conscious decisions like this over time adds up to quite a lot.

And so for X new vintage, you will have new labels on all your 750s (and maybe not of there are enough leftovers from past years with the same alcohol %) but the older version of the label on your magnums until you run out and start using the new version that was just printed.

Broadly, when you get into really rare bottles or rare formats, all kinds of things can happen. Roumier magnum capsules- at least through 2009 which was the last vintage I bought mags of Bonnes-Mares at release via official channels- are generic bright red with the grape design on the top- in contrast to the dark burgundy colored ones we see on bottles. Villa Sant’ Anna hand writes the vintage on their uber-rare half bottles of Vin Santo- using the same basic label year after year. These are just 2 examples. And note as well that slightly askance labels are not unusual- signs of sloppy gluing or evidence of a slightly different footprint from a previously removed label are what we appraisers look at, among other things, for signs of a replaced label.

To the OP- fair question and a wise thing to be cautious given what we know about fakery these days- with this being an explanation of how sometimes there are inconsistencies.

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You still have to change the vintage.

I’ve seen that once or twice on bottles from Europe. The quantities at many of the top producers (outside Bordeaux) are quite small, and the number of magnums very few.

Running a label company in the US doesn’t say much about your knowledge of small producers in Europe.

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I am out.

Have fun.

Most of you have no clue.

In this particular case, the vintage is not noted on the main label- hence the ability to switch over. But yes, in most cases you are correct as the vintage is for most wines on the main label.

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I may not have a clue, but I still own some small-production (European) bottles where the vintage was just a small ballpoint pen scribble in the label.

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Same. Coincidentally, I’m looking at a magnum of Clos Vougeot from Grivot now, with a scribbled 1,5l in blue ball point pen on top of the original 750ml. Obviously a label for a regular bottle. This used to happen all the time and some places still do.

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But we still don’t have a clue how things REALLY are!

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Just don’t buy it

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C’mon, both has been done multiple times for single bts/mgs. - at least for private customers, I even have one with the signature of the owner in addition

  1. usually 0.75s and mags have the identical label (design) - but (have to) differ in the volume indication
  2. Chave changed the label design from 1996 to 1997
  3. It is possible that (some) mags have been released later … and the domaine used the new (1997) labels …

Agreed?

Moreover there are several (identical) wines with completely different labels for different destinations … just take
Ramonet (Montrachet), Levet etc.

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That price!

  1. Or since the change apparently occurred across the board for 1997, he simply had the new labels for the 1997s printed before the 1996s were bottled and shipped.
    4.1 Or on top of that “Merde, I ran out of my 1.5 labels early”
    4.2 Or on top of than “Merde, I grabbed the wrong 1.5 labels since both are sitting there.”

Not sure why you guys are giving Michael a hard time, look at that photo of the 750 and 1.5 side by side. Even though they are stylistically the same, the 1.5 label is printed on larger paper. I’m guessing that these come from the printer cut to size. If so, different labels.

Have you read his responses? He is essentially saying we all know nothing and claiming that the label DESIGN HAS to he different from a regular 750ml and a mag due to volume, which I have never heard before. Plenty of wines where labels between 750mls and mags are the same except for the volume number (750ml vs 1.5L/1500ml).

I was reading that as if volume or vintage are on the label, while also seeing the size difference. You guys are gonna make me drive to off site storage where all my Chave is (750s though) to look for myself :smiley:.

Probably because he seems to just be being argumentative and contrarian for its own sake calling it “different” because it’s larger when the style of the label was clearly what the OP was questioning. Oh and he doesn’t seem to understand labeling laws are much more relaxed in the EU.

Different, not more relaxed. There are many requirements in the EU labeling laws that make it impossible for many non-EU wines to come to European markets without an amended / market-specific label.

The labeling laws can also change wildly depending on which EU country is in question.

There are definitely examples of Italian wines that come into the US with the vintage hand written. Or labels from any number of EU countries where the label is printed with a blank space where the vintage is hand stamped on.

Maybe more ignored… one of my favourites being that the alcohol can only be stated to one decimal place.

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