Keller Silliness

[Jurgen_Steinke]

Rauno,

you can add tons of those examples. Why paying some hundred bucks for the second wines of Bordeaux Premiers crus when you can have a Chateau Batailley with the same quality for a fraction of the price? Image has a huge impact. When a wine or a Domaine is heavily hyped it is time to look elsewhere.

[Jeremy_Holmes]

Go touch yourself Gillette.

We are already having a mass debate here R.Foss. We don’t need any self touching encouragement.

[Martin_Zwick]

Go touch yourself Gillette.

We are already having a mass debate here R.Foss. We don’t need any self touching encouragement.

YES, we can‘t tolerate this behavior. I hope the moderators intervened and send R. Foss a message.

[T_Williams]

This thread is eye opening. I never knew there was such a divide in the Riesling drinking community over German and Austrian wines. I’ve not progressed passed the pradikat wines from German but my interest is most definitely peaked now.

[Claus_Jeppesen]

Martin recently posted about Keller Von der Fels 2019. Remembering the joy of drinking this great wine is more important than complaining about pricing of Coche Dury or Keller GG
https://www.instagram.com/p/CA23PwxJKL8/?igshid=2isjq5mrmpe0

[Sarah_Kirschbaum]

I pretty much stopped when they shot past Trimbach CFE, and a boatload of other demonstrably better wines coming out of Austria.

Can you please explain what you feel makes these Austrian dry wines better than their German counterparts discussed here? I understand that some people including you like them more, but am curious what you feel makes them objectively or “demonstrably” better, which is a measure of quality, not preference.

[Fred_C]

It does seem odd that people think a $200 Coche Dury Village Meursault is good value but a Keller Riesling somehow cannot be good value at that price.

$200 Coche Dury Village Meursault would be considered a STEAL in this part of the world!

[A_Gillette]

And I think the Austrian and CFE are better wines. Keller has never been something that rang my bells, not Schafer-Frohlich. Wittman has been up and down, etc.

Well, you line up with R. Foss on Keller, so you have to be a little bit concerned. Wittmann not my thing either. You should check out the mosel. Schloss Lieser doktor. Schloss Lieser wehlener GG. Or don’t. Like I said, if you prefer Austria, have at it!
A

You could also put some of the Loewen GG into the queue for yourself. Or don’t. Like I said, if you prefer Keller, have at it.

Not a Loewen fan, but I happily buy quite a few dry German wines that aren’t Keller.

[A_Gillette]

It does seem odd that people think a $200 Coche Dury Village Meursault is good value but a Keller Riesling somehow cannot be good value at that price.

$200 Coche Dury Village Meursault would be considered a STEAL in this part of the world!

And those coche wines just taste like a huge dose of sulfur!

[A_Gillette]

YES, the secondary market is crazy but this is not KP Keller fault. BTW, if you’re an old customer at the estate you will get for example a Kirchspiel GG for 35€. Clearly cheaper than other estates.

Because of the secondary market I so often praise and recommend „von der Fels“, affordable and easy to get incl. high quality.

Finally, a little anecdote from a Xmas celebration 2 years ago. Shortly before Xmas a group of wine-lovers meet every year to open special bottles. I brought a 2016 Keller „Pettenthal GG auction to make some guys happy. There were also 2 wives on the table who are not impressed by the name Keller, but they have good tastebuds. The 2 women were such thrilled about the „Pettenthal“ that they wanted to stop the line-up drinking and only want to drink KELLER Pettenthal auction, nothing else. Of course, we laughed.

Kuhling-Gillot makes a very good pettenthal. Maybe serve them that and see what they think.
A

[james_l_moleberg]

I do love internet wine board arguments. This Keller debate is a battle royale between Instagram influencers versus the “get off my lawn” crowd.

[A_Gillette]

I do love internet wine board arguments. This Keller debate is a battle royale between Instagram influencers versus the “get off my lawn” crowd.

And now we also the internet trolls who chime in with nothing useful to say!

[dcornutt]

Every retailer I buy Keller from - prior to or leading in the email apologized for the price hike this vintage. ha

Also i’m with Alex, give me keller GG over anything from austria

Love you but I would go the Gobelsberg Riesling Tradition in most vintages.

Schloss Gobelsberg Tradition Riesling is excellent but the Schloss Goebelsberg Lamm 1er Lage is AMAZING Gruner that I would rather drink than most rieslings. It is not cheap but much cheaper than I can get most of the good GGs from Germany. I know it is a different grape but I do love this. More than riesling many times. I love this address.

[Jurgen_Steinke]

Grüner Veltliner is the most underrated white wine grape. But it is probably not wise to say this because the prices are still relativ reasonable.

[Brian_S_t_o_t_t_e_r]

Paging Salil…

[james_l_moleberg]

I do love internet wine board arguments. This Keller debate is a battle royale between Instagram influencers versus the “get off my lawn” crowd.

And now we also the internet trolls who chime in with nothing useful to say!

A. Gillette: “My bet would be that you just have bad taste. I mean, that would the simplest answer. Bad palate.”
And this guy is calling other people internet trolls with nothing useful to say.

[A_Gillette]

I do love internet wine board arguments. This Keller debate is a battle royale between Instagram influencers versus the “get off my lawn” crowd.

And now we also the internet trolls who chime in with nothing useful to say!

A. Gillette: “My bet would be that you just have bad taste. I mean, that would the simplest answer. Bad palate.”
And this guy is calling other people internet trolls with nothing useful to say.

That was a sincere answer. If your personal preferences veer drastically from market preferences, that would be one (pretty good) definition of having bad taste.

[Sean_S_y_d_n_e_y]

Unhelpful post:

Some fragile egos here, yikes.

[David_Bu3ker]

I pretty much stopped when they shot past Trimbach CFE, and a boatload of other demonstrably better wines coming out of Austria.

Can you please explain what you feel makes these Austrian dry wines better than their German counterparts discussed here? I understand that some people including you like them more, but am curious what you feel makes them objectively or “demonstrably” better, which is a measure of quality, not preference.

I specifically did not use the word objective, as there is no such thing as objective taste, except where something is obviously spoiled/flawed. As for demonstrably, perhaps also too strong, but I have yet to participate in a blind tasting where a Keller GG came out on top of its dry Alsatian or Austrian counterparts - and not just for me. Limited data set I know, and my experience with the wines stops at about 2010, as I decided it was no longer worth pursuing/trying them.

Overall though, give me a bottle of Trimbach CFE (much longer track record here), Hirtzberger Singerriedel, Gobelsbug Tradition, Alzinger Steinertal, etc., etc. any day of the week. I do like the greater body in many of the Austrian wines, though as mentioned by Mr. Gillette, one has to be careful of alcohol levels in many vintages. CFE (not to mention the glorious CFE VT when it is produced) is just home base for me, along with Donnhoff Hermannshohle (and Hermannshohle Spatlese for the sweeter style), as my touchstones for Riesling.

[RyanC]

Grüner Veltliner is the most underrated white wine grape. But it is probably not wise to say this because the prices are still relativ reasonable.

Absolutely true.