They’re excellent wines no doubt, but the current secondary market pricing is stupid. I’d pay $75 or even probably $100+. But for $200+, no thanks. I’m with David on Austria: I think that often Alzinger, Prager, Brundlmayer et al are every bit as good–often better–regardless of price.
Well, you line up with R. Foss on Keller, so you have to be a little bit concerned. Wittmann not my thing either. You should check out the mosel. Schloss Lieser doktor. Schloss Lieser wehlener GG. Or don’t. Like I said, if you prefer Austria, have at it!
A
I’m with David. I’ve thought most of the GG I ever tried were overpriced out of the gate. It felt like the the constructers of this market wanted to make themselves into some sort of instant Burgundy. When most people already respected the sweet wines that way. But ya know, sugar isn’t to be taken seriously so…
Austria has always represented better wines at better prices with more variety for my palate in terms of dry Riesling. They have lots of great wines there and if people really want dry Riesling they should buy those. I never understood the suddenly hyped German dry wines in terms of pricing. It’s always been pricing before reputation as far as I could taste.
Every retailer I buy Keller from - prior to or leading in the email apologized for the price hike this vintage. ha
Also i’m with Alex, give me keller GG over anything from austria
I’m not really sure what people mean when they talk about Keller pricing like you do above. You can get the kirchspiel or hubacker on release for the prices you mention. To me, in most vintages they are “buy all you can” at $75, well worth it at $100, and in top vintages worth more. ‘17 kirchspiel? ‘13 hubacker? I’d pay $150. Absterde to me is much more than a $75 wine and I don’t think you will find it on release for that price anymore. For me, there are some years when it’s the best wine in the Keller stable. I understand why people pay $250/$300 for it. The morstein and g-max come in the Kellerkiste, which isn’t particularly expensive at release, but people break it up and sell it for high prices. Pettenthal GG has been an auction wine since 2016. It doesn’t sell below the auction price. That isn’t $75. Hopefully it’s about 10x that, but maybe more. R Foss is going to be very unhappy about this, but demand outstrips supply significantly. Is it worth it? In my view, it’s the best white wine in the world. It’s alone at the top of what I’ve had. It’s hard to say a wine is worth $1000, but if someone forced me to spend that on a bottle of white wine, it would be Keller pettenthal GG. Morstein is very, very good. I’m not sure it’s better than Absterde, but I’ve only had Morstein a handful of times. I think the price difference between Morstein and Absterde on the secondary market may be a result of rarity. Never had a dry Hipping but I own a few and look forward to trying them. And of course, now we have a dry schubertslay, which is a different thing and I haven’t tried it so can’t comment.
But if you are taking $75 a bottle, I think you mean kirchspiel and hubacker.
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+1
(And I definitely play the Federspiel when it comes to Austrian wine.)
I’m honestly fine with it being the Keller wines that have gone into the stratosphere and not any of my favorite producers.
A. Gillette, no disrespect meant. I am glad it’s your top of the heap white wine in the world, and I would do as you do if it was mine.
I think you misunderstand my post. I’m not talking about what Keller actually costs. I’m talking about what it is worth to me. I’m saying that in general I’d pay $75-150 or perhaps a bit more for the normal range of wines (Hubacker up to Absterde) but not the $200+ that the low-level GGs command on the secondary market. I’m also not talking about G-Max and Pettenthal—I’ve never had them, although they’re certainly on the list of wines I’m eager to try. I do think that Keller makes absolutely beautiful wines. I’m talking only about relative value.
Just because it Keller used to be undervalued— doesn’t make it overvalued now. As one of the best white wines in the world, it may still be a bargain at current prices.
Not sure how you define “value”.
A number of years ago, as Oregon pricing was pushing upwards, John Paul at Cameron in Oregon published his costs per bottle for his wines. And pointed out that some of the higher price points had little to do with cost of goods.
Just because Keller is a value to A. Gillette as his top wine in the world, it’s nothing of the sort to me. So $200/bottle to him is a value, or at least fair pricing. To me it’s stupid.
If you are telling me it’s a value now because his cost of goods has made $200/bottle necessary to stay in business and all of his competition also suffers from the same situation, then he’s still a value.
If you mean Keller wines are still a value at $200 because fan boys will pay way more than that…I just don’t agree.
Love you but I would go the Gobelsberg Riesling Tradition in most vintages.
kpk has cultivated a relatively formidable instagram presence. it would not surprise me if this has played a role in upgrading the perceived desirability of his wines into coveted status. of course they are great wines, but i don’t think the inherent quality of the product is solely responsible for influencing the market.
can remove “Keller” and substitute many white or Burgundies and have the same complaints
YES, the secondary market is crazy but this is not KP Keller fault. BTW, if you’re an old customer at the estate you will get for example a Kirchspiel GG for 35€. Clearly cheaper than other estates.
Because of the secondary market I so often praise and recommend „von der Fels“, affordable and easy to get incl. high quality.
Finally, a little anecdote from a Xmas celebration 2 years ago. Shortly before Xmas a group of wine-lovers meet every year to open special bottles. I brought a 2016 Keller „Pettenthal GG auction to make some guys happy. There were also 2 wives on the table who are not impressed by the name Keller, but they have good tastebuds. The 2 women were such thrilled about the „Pettenthal“ that they wanted to stop the line-up drinking and only want to drink KELLER Pettenthal auction, nothing else. Of course, we laughed.
100%. For some reason it seems that White Burg is subject to hype more than just about anything else. And at least Keller is up there with some of the best Riesling—the question is more of value. I just don’t get some of the hyped White Burg producers. Boisson-Vadot? Arnaud Ente? I just don’t get it. Even with Roulot, as good as it is, I can’t justify the pricing.
Cheapest option is €140 on wine-searcher ![[wow.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/7/7d450e9830889c8943b674446a21b7254cad657e.gif "wow"){kind=small}
Sad, but this reminds me on Coche-Dury which you could get for 50€ at the estate.
BTW, a gernan wine-dealer which is normally a Bordeaux merchant offered 2018 Kirchspiel GG for such a price. He clearly want to make money.
P.S. I just saw the attachment. KIRDORF, I am surprised. Another sad example.
You could also put some of the Loewen GG into the queue for yourself. Or don’t. Like I said, if you prefer Keller, have at it.
I recommend Pinard de Picard. Last year 2018 Kirchspiel GG was around 40€. But you have to be fast, only hrs left to order.
It does seem odd that people think a $200 Coche Dury Village Meursault is good value but a Keller Riesling somehow cannot be good value at that price.
I had big trouble with some guys on the old Squires board who hyped Keller wines all the time. Saying that nothing compares to them. With the effect that the wines exploded in price.
I still say that this is nonsense. There are tons of other great Rieslings coming out of Germany. Martin Zwick does a blind tasting of the Grosses Gewächs year in and year out. And while Keller wines are often amongst the 10 best rated wines almost ever others were the most preferred.
Keller Rieslings are very fine, no doubt. I have several of them in my own cellar. But my experience is not that they are in a league of their own. That is another myth in the wine world.