Is there anyone who takes the Beer Advocate seriously?

I think the Beer Advocate is about as messed up a concept as exists. I was at the Westveltern release event, and every time a beer was mentioned, everyone whips out their smart phones to check Beer Advocate scores to see if the beer is worth buying or not. It was like being in a crowd of Wine Spectator readers. And what is worse- they have started with BA shelf talkers. Seriously. This is an f’ed up concept. Whenever the BA rates a beer ‘100 points’ the store has a shelf talker denoting such. And that section is ALWAYS sold out. People scoop up those 100 point beers super quick. This is in spite of the fact that there are other beers nearby that are every bit as good sitting on the shelf. What is really funny? In the fridge portion of the store you see those same 100 point beers, but since there are no shelf talkers in the fridge, those exact same beers sit. Those poseurs don’t realize those are the same beers- they just go for the points. Some thoughts:

  1. I can see rating wines, but beers are so varied in style that it is an individual choice- rating beers makes no sense
  2. While it is not a bad thing that people are getting to try microbrews, the poseurs out here only want to drink 100 point beer. Bizarre
  3. The BA ratings are a total mess as well- if you find a score that is within 20 points of the ‘true’ score, it seems to be the exception, not the rule. Where do they come up with these numbers?

It’s the Aussi-fication of the beer market. Notice how the ‘points’ gravitate towards the oversized beers.

I have been thrilled with the microbrew revolution I have seen in the last 20 years, but my primary complaint (besides scores being so wildly ‘wrong’) is that from what I am seeing people are relying on scores and write-ups rather than their own palates. Which hurts beer, not helps it. Maybe this is just in this area of the country where microbrew is a bit newer than other parts of the US?

And it is worth pointing out that US consumers ran away from the Aussie wines, and that market is hurting in a big bad way. I’d hate to see that happen to beer.

One of the things we saw initially was the run towards copycat brewing. Imperial IPA’s start scoring highly, EVERYONE does one. Barrel aged stuff tops the list, EVERYONE makes one. But because brewing exists on a batch-by-batch basis instead of vintage-by-vintage the way wine does, you can turn on a dime to public perception if you want to. You now see the counter-response happening with IPAs where the session IPA under 5%abv is becoming the rage, as well as the ‘think local’ concept of using home grown ingredients, almost a quest for terroir in brewing. Beer drinkers are far more fickle than wine drinkers, but only because they can choose to be.

As you guys point out - you look at the top scoring beers in The Beer Advocate and Ratebeer.com, they are most always Barley Wines, Stouts and Quadrupel IPA’s - and it drive me crazy to see the young crowd flock to these things - I’m in the craft beer biz - and it is so disheartening to see so few beer geeks appreciate a great pilsener (still the hardest beer category to do right in the world) and go nuts over these syrupy, overdone beers.

And - The Beer Advocate and Ratebeer.com are huge across the country - and frankly, I have to be a score monger as well, any beer of mine that gets a 90+ score - I promote the hell out of that -

Like every hobby Bob there is the lemming effect and right now it’s imperial or rare anything. I’ve found that a lot of beers that I have liked get fairly mediocre ratings there. Most of the reviews are basically the same, but there always seems to be a couple that are in line with me- usually one of the older BA’s… There are a lot of kids around the site.

It has its uses and if you’re willing to sift through all the fluff there is some value.

I will say that I actually have found the site as a useful reference- getting a list of beers and styles that a producer makes. Other than that…

That is the main value for me.

I use their website all the time to get info on beers when I am shopping. Could care less about searching for 100 point beers. Actually Beer Advocate does not use a 100 point scale so maybe you are getting that from RateBeer? BA uses a 5 point scale, though it is broken down to the 1/4 point.

Big plus one on reference value, you can get a general idea of quality and style by looking at notes and scores, especially if you are unfamiliar with the brewery. Their beer style section is helpful for descriptions of styles you may be unfamiliar with and to look at top lists by style as well.

I will say that I do not participate on BA but am interested in seeing how people rate beers in their peer group. I do not see beer and wine rating all that different, sure there are probably more styles of beer but wine can be just as polarizing.

There are a ton of beer styles, producers,etc. that I know nothing about. I use BA for a guide, usually to help me when I know little about the beer (or producer) in front of me. There are alot of really mediocre beers out there – fortunately the cost (in dollars) is low, but the more landmines I can avoid, the better. I need to be better about dumping beers I don’t like.

I’ve never seen a shelf talker for beer, but I am certain they exist.

Some great points made above (especially that about batches vs vintages). Bob, your complaint sounds exactly like the wine business in the early 90s as people came shopping with their wine mag in hand with no interest in advice. I wouldn’t let it bother you because it is here to stay.
I use BA for release date discussions and trading. That’s it.
The store uses every 95 or higher rating for shelf tags. Pimpin’ ain’t easy. Damn straight!

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/1471/5385

Here is a link to the beer advocates rating for Crooked Tree. It is most definately a 100 point system, as they rate it at 89 points. (although this is apparently an interpretation of a different rating system?) And what is even funnier, they have a second rating “The Bros” who give it 100 points. So- they rate it twice and have an 11 point spread? That is way far off. People go nuts when Neal Martin rates a Bordeaux more than 2 points away from Bob Parker, but 11 is ridiculous.
I also notice that the label they have for Crooked Tree is wrong as well, or at least isn’t the one I have seen. I don’t know why- perhaps they have changed labels.

The Bros rating is the official magazine/online review from the Alstrom brothers who run the site. The rating on the left is an average community rating. Kinda like if cellartracker assigned a rating to wines based on the community average.

True- you get ratings from people who are influenced by hype or style, but I actually find BA’s are tougher critics in general than people on RB.

I don’t mind the reviews, and certainly don’t put much stock in the scores, but I think there is a lot of value there overall.

You are right Bob. Funny I have never even payed attention to that box at the top with the point scores, hah. They must derive this score from the 5 point scale?? The individual reviews are always in the five point scale. Also when you pull up the profile for a brewery the ratings are always in the five point scale. Seems pretty contrived to extrapolate a 100 point scale from that so I agree with you there.

Chasing crowd-sourced points is silly on its face. I’m more concerned about a backlash a la the “AFWE” phenomenon in wine. Besides a shared dislike of corporate beers, a big-tent attitude seems to prevail in the hobby. For instance, I don’t believe I’ve ever heard anyone suggest that a particular craft beer is not the “right” kind of beer. Everyone has preferences, but I don’t get the sense that those sorts of lines have been drawn (yet).

BA is a fantastic guide for beer information. Be cautious of the hype factor asociated with the BA scores as apposed to the Bros. scores as it often reflects the current flavor of the month mentality.

Pretty sophomoric as far as the threads go, a definite 20 something “BRO” crowd. That is it’s biggest detractor for me.

Cheers…

Bud

My Whole Foods has them.

Cheers…

Bud

my experience has been the opposite. If you look at the average and mean ratings on RB vs BA, RB is generally lower