Is Saignée Interventionist?

[David_Bu3ker]

@Jim Swayze

As a fellow geek, I hear you. But I guess the thing that sealed the deal for me was the surprising number of makers of full throttle spoof who don’t drink their own wines.

Doesn’t mean anything. You would be shocked at the idea that most wine is made to be sold, not consumed by the winemaker.

@Jim Swayze

Spoofalated wines are more and more going to rightly be seen as that satin shirt. I shudder to think what all the women who got boob jobs in the last few years are going to do at family reunions in twenty years.

Again - by geeks. I think of big, rich, extracted wines as SUVs. Despite the cost of gas & the cost to the environment, people still buy and drive them. Some of us make what we consider to be more responsible choices, but that doesn’t stop the guy next door from buying an Escalade.

[David_Bu3ker]

@Keith Levenberg

@Jim Swayze

I shudder to think what all the women who got boob jobs in the last few years are going to do at family reunions in twenty years.

They’ll be on the Real Housewives of Orange County.

Indeed. There is an endless market for crap.

[Adam_Lee]

@Keith Levenberg

@Jim Swayze

I shudder to think what all the women who got boob jobs in the last few years are going to do at family reunions in twenty years.

They’ll be on the Real Housewives of Orange County.

More than a fair share of them will be at an SMU Alumni event.

Adam Lee
Siduri Wines

[Jason_Jardine]

@Adam Lee

@Keith Levenberg

@Jim Swayze

I shudder to think what all the women who got boob jobs in the last few years are going to do at family reunions in twenty years.

They’ll be on the Real Housewives of Orange County.

More than a fair share of them will be at an SMU Alumni event.

Adam Lee
Siduri Wines

We’ll let that slide Adam since you’re a native Texan…

[David_K_o_l_i_n]

[quote="David M. Bueker I am in a tasting group with some very experienced tasters who adore the kind of wines that we decry as spoof on a regular basis. None of them post on wine boards, and all of them derive great pleasure from drinking the kinds of wine they like. [/quote]

Well, they shouldn’t

[David_Bu3ker]

@David K o l i n

[quote="David M. Bueker] I am in a tasting group with some very experienced tasters who adore the kind of wines that we decry as spoof on a regular basis. None of them post on wine boards, and all of them derive great pleasure from drinking the kinds of wine they like.

Well, they shouldn’t[/quote][/quote]

I know. I know. They are doomed to hell eternal for failing to be righteous wine geeks. May God forgive them.

[Lewis_Dawson]

@David M. Bueker

The entire universe of wine is not the geeky, obsessed group that posts on wine boards (I include me in that group - so I am not taking a shot at anyone). I am in a tasting group with some very experienced tasters who adore the kind of wines that we decry as spoof on a regular basis. None of them post on wine boards, and all of them derive great pleasure from drinking the kinds of wine they like. They honestly think my love of more “intellectual” styles of wine is a bit daft.

David is right. I too have such a tasting group. But it is my turn to host, so tomorrow they will all get to taste six Burgs plus two California ringers, double blind… he he he. I’m pretty sure no basic wine preferences will be changed by this tasting.

[Lewis_Dawson]

@Jim Swayze

Spoofalated wines are more and more going to rightly be seen as that satin shirt. I shudder to think what all the women who got boob jobs in the last few years are going to do at family reunions in twenty years.

Jim, you are more confident than I that subtle, nuanced, site-driven wines are going to take over the universe. If they do, you and I probably won’t be able to afford the wines we drink now. There just aren’t enough good sites to go around, you know.

[Claude_Kolm]

@Keith Levenberg

Well, someone else can articulate the difference and defend chaptalization if they feel like it but it won’t be me, since I’m actually not A-OK with it.

Many Burgundy producers, including Aubert de Villaine and Lalou Bize-Leroy, defend chaptalization (a very light one) as a way to prolong fermentation and therefore gain extra complexity. See, e.g., Jasper Moris’s Inside Burgundy at p. 81. Is that intervention? You betcha!.

Are all interventions equally good or bad? No way!

Is it possible to make wine without intervention? As others have pointed out above, no!

[Claude_Kolm]

@Jim Swayze

Anybody know how Tempier does theirs?

Without checking my notes, but as best I recall, it’s mostly, but not exclusively, saigner.

[Jim_Swayze]

@Jason Jardine

@Adam Lee

@Keith Levenberg

They’ll be on the Real Housewives of Orange County.

More than a fair share of them will be at an SMU Alumni event.

Adam Lee
Siduri Wines

We’ll let that slide Adam since you’re a native Texan…

Adam speaks the truth, Jason.

[Jim_Swayze]

@David M. Bueker

@Keith Levenberg

@Jim Swayze

I shudder to think what all the women who got boob jobs in the last few years are going to do at family reunions in twenty years.

They’ll be on the Real Housewives of Orange County.

Indeed. There is an endless market for crap.

You have some good points. My point is that we’ll see a movement to less forward wines at all levels. But, yes, we’re not going to overcome bad taste in my lifetime.

[Jim_Swayze]

@Lewis Dawson

Jim, you are more confident than I that subtle, nuanced, site-driven wines are going to take over the universe. If they do, you and I probably won’t be able to afford the wines we drink now. There just aren’t enough good sites to go around, you know.

That’s right. I think we’ll just see a toning down and more wine drunk at table.

[Adam_Lee]

Hey Jim,

So…since I get back to the Dallas area quite frequently, what are the odds that I could this summer do a blind tasting for you…wines that I choose…and you figure our what is more or less spoofilated…or more or less ageable…or more or less your preference…or whatever standard you choose…

Adam Lee
Siduri Wines

[Bob_Wood]

Cage match! I like it!

[Linda_Baehr]

@David M. Bueker

@Jim Swayze

As a fellow geek, I hear you. But I guess the thing that sealed the deal for me was the surprising number of makers of full throttle spoof who don’t drink their own wines.

Doesn’t mean anything. You would be shocked at the idea that most wine is made to be sold, not consumed by the winemaker.

[Adam_Lee]

@Bob Wood

Cage match! I like it!

No, no cage match. But since the satin shirt…since the spoof…since the Warhol…is so apparent…let me just pick out 10 wine…all my $$…and let Jim figure out the spoof and the satin and the Andy…and figure out which aren’t. I don’t claim that it is that apparent…so I got no stake in this…

Adam Lee
Siduri Wines

[David_Bu3ker]

@Jim Swayze

@David M. Bueker

@Keith Levenberg

They’ll be on the Real Housewives of Orange County.

Indeed. There is an endless market for crap.

You have some good points. My point is that we’ll see a movement to less forward wines at all levels. But, yes, we’re not going to overcome bad taste in my lifetime.

I have much less faith in the common man than you do.

[Jonathan_Loesberg]

A couple of summers ago in France there was a scandal about an imminent change in rules that would allow rosé wine to be made from blending white and red, in the manner of some Aussies. Although they didn’t have the word, they clearly considered such rosés to be laboratory produced. They said proper rosé was made only with red grapes that had reduced skin contact and usually by saignées, which they considered the tradition-approved way of doing things. Most rosés I know in France that are produced by small domaines are saignées of their red wine. They would be shocked to think that they are spoofing their red to produce their rosé.

[Jim_Swayze]

@Adam Lee

So…since I get back to the Dallas area quite frequently, what are the odds that I could this summer do a blind tasting for you…wines that I choose…and you figure our what is more or less spoofilated…or more or less ageable…or more or less your preference…or whatever standard you choose…

Adam, any chance to taste Pinot noir with a mere fellow devotee is a treat for me. But to taste with a guy with such high regard in the industry, a guy that produces such an array of award winning wines, well what an honor.

I’m happy to take you up on your offer. Since I tend to gather information via intuition over longer periods of time rather than a single sit down tasting, my senses are very easily confused. So if you don’t object, I will be bringing the following as reference points to be drunk uncovered alongside your covered wines: an Eyrie Pinot noir and a d’Angerville Volnay. I will match these two wines to whatever vintages you choose for the wines you bring as an attempt to minimize any cross-vintage variability.

The standard for this tasting will be fragrance, elegance, purity of expression, delicacy, restraint.

In addition to the two wines, I promise to bring both a very open mind and a willingness to learn.

By the way, Bill Everheart says hello.

Thanks again.