Is Philly this Country's 3rd best food city?

Stuart_BeauneHead_Niemtzow · January 18, 2017, 7:07pm

Other than the classsic stereotype of “wooder”, I don’t recognize much Philly in your example, especially “da light”. Maybe “awhn” should be “aw-won”?

Siun_O_Connell · January 18, 2017, 7:11pm

MitchTallan:

I am here in the awful wasteland of the Midwest. We have fairly large cities like Indianapolis, Columbus, Cincinnati, and Cleveland that are pretty bad given the population mass. It is easy to have less respect for your own backyard, as easy as it is to be biased in favor. From my perspective, Chicago is way overrated. It is understandably meat-centric, but also calculated. One Off Hospitality Group is behind three or four of Chicago’s so-called best restaurants and they leave me cold. As just one example, how can a city the size of Chicago with it’s stockyards-based history not sport a great offal restaurant like Chris Cosentino’s former place, Incanto? To a much greater degree than NYC, San Fran, Philly, and LA, Chicago thrives upon tourist traffic. The dull bored denizens of the midwest plains come to Chicago to shop and eat in the “big city” and by and large, Chicago’s dining scene caters to these (us) country bumpkins.

So not true … sorry. Take a glance around LTHforum - http://www.lthforum.com - for just a start.

Nolan_E · January 18, 2017, 7:13pm

3qeY0mIn1K0

Tom.Cole · January 18, 2017, 7:19pm

Sarah, you clearly do not have much experience in New Orleans. I could run down your list and point to numerous examples for each of your traits for a food city. There is a reason that New Orleans was the first city featured on the PBS television series “Great Chefs of …” starting back in the late 80s.

However, you have really missed the boat on real quality at the 2nd tier. This is probably what I like most about New Orleans. Maybe you have just eaten at joints on Bourbon Street. If so, no argument here.

MitchTallan · January 18, 2017, 7:22pm

Siun o'Connell:

MitchTallan:

I am here in the awful wasteland of the Midwest. We have fairly large cities like Indianapolis, Columbus, Cincinnati, and Cleveland that are pretty bad given the population mass. It is easy to have less respect for your own backyard, as easy as it is to be biased in favor. From my perspective, Chicago is way overrated. It is understandably meat-centric, but also calculated. One Off Hospitality Group is behind three or four of Chicago’s so-called best restaurants and they leave me cold. As just one example, how can a city the size of Chicago with it’s stockyards-based history not sport a great offal restaurant like Chris Cosentino’s former place, Incanto? To a much greater degree than NYC, San Fran, Philly, and LA, Chicago thrives upon tourist traffic. The dull bored denizens of the midwest plains come to Chicago to shop and eat in the “big city” and by and large, Chicago’s dining scene caters to these (us) country bumpkins.

So not true … sorry. Take a glance around LTHforum - http://www.lthforum.com - for just a start.

I looked. Just what does that site prove, exactly? Here in my town we have this site alteatscolumbus.com. The fact that it exists does not prove that Columbus is a great place for hole-in-the-walls with great food.

RyanC · January 18, 2017, 7:28pm

Tom.Cole:

Sarah Kirschbaum:

…I disagree that New Orleans meets the criteria as well, though I understand the argument. I don’t think it has true high-end, real emphasis on ingredients, innovation, or (and I realize this will be unpopular) real quality at the 2nd tier. I am not sure about good examples of traditional cuisines, as I’ve never looked for those there. I think it’s the epitome of a place where it’s really fun to eat, but it lacks the quality to reach the heights. That said, I admit I have less experience there than with most of the other cities we’re discussing.

Sarah, you clearly do not have much experience in New Orleans. I could run down your list and point to numerous examples for each of your traits for a food city. There is a reason that New Orleans was the first city featured on the PBS television series “Great Chefs of …” starting back in the late 80s.

However, you have really missed the boat on real quality at the 2nd tier. This is probably what I like most about New Orleans. Maybe you have just eaten at joints on Bourbon Street. If so, no argument here.

Serious question: where do you recommend I eat in NOLA ? I’m there once or twice a month on business and almost always have time for a good meal. I’ve immensely enjoyed eating in NOLA, and have found a wide breadth of delicious food in fun spots, but with the potential exception of Shaya, I’ve not found anywhere that I thought was particularly superlative (i.e., qualitatively better than many 2nd tier restaurants you find in other good food cities).

Brian_Lynch · January 18, 2017, 7:34pm

This is funny. One of my friend’s son worked on that show. I’m sure he gave the “Philly” expertise (no offense taken).

Sarah_Kirschbaum · January 18, 2017, 7:40pm

Tom.Cole:

Sarah Kirschbaum:

…I disagree that New Orleans meets the criteria as well, though I understand the argument. I don’t think it has true high-end, real emphasis on ingredients, innovation, or (and I realize this will be unpopular) real quality at the 2nd tier. I am not sure about good examples of traditional cuisines, as I’ve never looked for those there. I think it’s the epitome of a place where it’s really fun to eat, but it lacks the quality to reach the heights. That said, I admit I have less experience there than with most of the other cities we’re discussing.

Sarah, you clearly do not have much experience in New Orleans. I could run down your list and point to numerous examples for each of your traits for a food city. There is a reason that New Orleans was the first city featured on the PBS television series “Great Chefs of …” starting back in the late 80s.

However, you have really missed the boat on real quality at the 2nd tier. This is probably what I like most about New Orleans. Maybe you have just eaten at joints on Bourbon Street. If so, no argument here.

You don’t give me much credit if you think I’d feel capable of making any kind of judgement based on “just (having) eaten at joints on Bourbon Street.” It’s true my experiences of New Orleans are more limited than with San Francisco or Los Angeles (where I go 5-6 times a year), or New York or Philadelphia (where I have lived), but all my trips there have been very carefully researched and the restaurants meticulously chosen, including recommendations from many on this board, chefs, and locals. I have not found New Orleans succeeds in meeting all the criteria of a truly great food city. Neither do a lot of people participating in this thread. I’m sure there are many others who, like you, feel it does. Respectfully disagreeing is fine.

David_K_o_l_i_n · January 18, 2017, 7:57pm

MitchTallan:

I am here in the awful wasteland of the Midwest. We have fairly large cities like Indianapolis, Columbus, Cincinnati, and Cleveland that are pretty bad given the population mass. It is easy to have less respect for your own backyard, as easy as it is to be biased in favor. From my perspective, Chicago is way overrated. It is understandably meat-centric, but also calculated. One Off Hospitality Group is behind three or four of Chicago’s so-called best restaurants and they leave me cold. As just one example, how can a city the size of Chicago with it’s stockyards-based history not sport a great offal restaurant like Chris Cosentino’s former place, Incanto? To a much greater degree than NYC, San Fran, Philly, and LA, Chicago thrives upon tourist traffic. The dull bored denizens of the midwest plains come to Chicago to shop and eat in the “big city” and by and large, Chicago’s dining scene caters to these (us) country bumpkins.

Youse bupkins can go where you want, but this town has an outstanding arc of restaurants (I guess we go there, you don’t). Our local restaurants don’t, by and large, cater to tourists, although a lot of tourists come here to eat at a relatively small handful of restaurants. Cosentino’s would do as well here as it did in SF - a little too precious (don’t misunderstand, I loved his food and that is exactly the kind of restaurant I’d eat at regularly, but I’m different than most). As for One Off, anyone who doesn’t like Big Star has some splaining to do.

You’re welcome any time Mitch. I think we can do a couple of restaurant crawls that will open your mind.

MitchTallan · January 18, 2017, 8:17pm

You’re welcome any time Mitch. I think we can do a couple of restaurant crawls that will open your mind.

I hope to take you up on this.
I am not sure if the 5th criteria repeated/adopted by Sarah was meant to cover this or not, but how can a city be a truly fine place for food if getting from one spot to the next is a royal pain in the ass? Though Incanto was off in the 'burbs by itself, San Francisco has clusters of great spots as does NYC (though getting from Manhattan to Brooklyn is not something I enjoy). But this commutability factor as I will call it is critical too. It combines traffic patterns, ease/speed of public transportation, cost of taxis, and geography if not more. On that scale, LA sucks. There aint much in downtown, forget about public transportation, taxis are not great and expensive due to the fact that everything is far apart. Chicago suffers from this too IMO.

P_Willenberg · January 18, 2017, 8:20pm

I find Vegas derivative. Can you name one thing that’s better there than the real thing?

Sarah_Kirschbaum · January 18, 2017, 8:25pm

MitchTallan · January 18, 2017, 8:33pm

OK, since the question of criteria has come up, I will try and summarize the article I have at home

I took this to mean that you borrowed some or all of the criteria from someone else’s article. If you meant your own, than pardon mois.

Stuart_BeauneHead_Niemtzow · January 18, 2017, 8:38pm

Sorry…but I didn’t find that funny at all. It sounds like two guys from Pittsburgh talking to each other…“Dem” is really not a Philly expression; though, “youse” is. (In Pittsburgh, “youse” is “yuins”.) A couple of words by the “Philly” guy sound right, but…basically they both sound like “stillers” fans, though one might be from Erie and might be a Bills fan. (No “iggles” fan on that tape…for sure.)

Sarah_Kirschbaum · January 18, 2017, 9:08pm

Yes, the article was one I wrote, but didn’t have access to at work. Confusion cleared, thanks.

MitchTallan · January 18, 2017, 9:16pm

I am sorry Sarah. You are right. I deleted the needless snark from my post. Perhaps you could spare me embarrassment and delete the same from your quoting me above.

Tom_Gibson · January 18, 2017, 9:21pm

Deez, dat, dem, doze, da. It’s classic Northeast (and South) Philly!

I suspect we are getting at the same sound with awhn/aw-won for on.

Add in jawn as another classic Philly-only (as far as I know) term.

Also, I think Kroll’s accent is pretty decent for Philly. If you don’t think he sounds Philly, not sure what to say - but he definitely sounds like a lot of kids I grew up with.

Tom.Cole · January 18, 2017, 9:29pm

Rest assured, I am respectfully disagreeing. Additionally, I was not accusing you of having only eaten on Bourbon Street. I have no way of knowing where you have eaten. However, your admitted lack of experience eating in New Orleans conjured up in my mind that maybe you have only eaten at Bourbon Street eateries, if you so casually dismiss the New Orleans food scene.

Where have you eaten in New Orleans? Once I know where, I might possibly be able to provide some insight as to places where you should in order to meet all your criteria.

Stuart_BeauneHead_Niemtzow · January 18, 2017, 10:50pm

To continue to digress from this unansweable query re: “Philly”. Deez, dat, etc…are more NY.

Sorry, but…unless you grew up on Mount Wershington, near the incline…those kids were better at it than Kroll.

Michael_S_Monie · January 18, 2017, 11:59pm

Sarah Kirschbaum:

Tom.Cole:

Sarah Kirschbaum:

…I disagree that New Orleans meets the criteria as well, though I understand the argument. I don’t think it has true high-end, real emphasis on ingredients, innovation, or (and I realize this will be unpopular) real quality at the 2nd tier. I am not sure about good examples of traditional cuisines, as I’ve never looked for those there. I think it’s the epitome of a place where it’s really fun to eat, but it lacks the quality to reach the heights. That said, I admit I have less experience there than with most of the other cities we’re discussing.

Sarah, you clearly do not have much experience in New Orleans. I could run down your list and point to numerous examples for each of your traits for a food city. There is a reason that New Orleans was the first city featured on the PBS television series “Great Chefs of …” starting back in the late 80s.

However, you have really missed the boat on real quality at the 2nd tier. This is probably what I like most about New Orleans. Maybe you have just eaten at joints on Bourbon Street. If so, no argument here.

You don’t give me much credit if you think I’d feel capable of making any kind of judgement based on “just (having) eaten at joints on Bourbon Street.” It’s true my experiences of New Orleans are more limited than with San Francisco or Los Angeles (where I go 5-6 times a year), or New York or Philadelphia (where I have lived), but all my trips there have been very carefully researched and the restaurants meticulously chosen, including recommendations from many on this board, chefs, and locals. I have not found New Orleans succeeds in meeting all the criteria of a truly great food city. Neither do a lot of people participating in this thread. I’m sure there are many others who, like you, feel it does. Respectfully disagreeing is fine.

I’ve been commenting on N.O. as a food city on the"Unpopular Food Opinion" thread when I should have been here. I read Sarah’s list which is clearly a well conceived and comprehensive compilation of what makes a city a great food location. And it’s probably true that N.O. does not meet many of the stated criteria. But as I said on the other thread, New Orleans has an indigenous cuisine based on Creole dishes. While it may be true that many restaurants here are not sourcing the latest micro-greens currently in vogue, the abundance of fresh, affordable, local seafood available is a continual supply of ingredients that enable great eating year round. N.O. is small in population compared to the other cities in question and is a traditionally poor town. It’s not only possible to eat well here inexpensively, it’s likely.The emphasis on making “our own” food certainly has been an impediment to embracing world cuisine, but that situation has improved over the last couple of decades. Eating well is a daily priority here, both in the restaurants and in the home. We have “fun” eating here all of the time, not just on special occasions. To understand New Orleans’ relationship with eating and drinking, one must be immersed in it for more than a weekend. It’s like what Louis Armstrong replied when asked to explain jazz, “if you have to ask, you’ll never know”.