Is it worth the wait? Cellaring old (2000 Cru Bourgeois Bdx) wine for 20 years

[Dan_Kravitz]

@JustinP

They (English branch) purchased Mouton in 1853.

Thank you. I knew it had recently changed hands, did not know who bought it.

[J_a_y_H_a_c_k]

@JustinP

@John_Morris

@Jonathan_Loesberg

I never heard that underclassifying Mouton was do to antisemitism, not that that was unlikely in 19th century France. But then why didn’t they also underclassify Lafite, which is also a Rothschild wine (they did get around).

Yes, hard to square with Lafite being a first growth.

Circle squared: the Rothschilds didn’t buy Lafite until 10-15 years after the 1855 classification.

Correct. It is unclear whether the relegation of Mouton to deuxieme crus was because it had recently been acquired by an Englishman, and thus no longer in French hands, or even worse, because the Englishman was a Jew. I suspect that both factors contributed. However, the Rothschilds did not buy Lafite until after the classification, thus confusing the issue.

[Arv_R]

@J_a_y_H_a_c_k

The others I have that I will open soon are Clos Rene, de Sales, d’Aiguilhe, La Fleur de Jague, Cantemerle, Cos Labory, Grand Mayne and d’Armailhac. An then there are my two splurges - 2000 Lacombes and d’Issan

I too was shopping at Rochambeau in that era, and have/had all of those except the Lascombes. I enjoy/prefer the taste of Bordeaux with bottle age, but all of those were better a decade ago. Perhaps the Clos Rene, Cantemerle, Grand Mayne, d’Armailhac can continue holding if you insist - but the wines are who they are going to be at this age.

Fleur de Jaugue is a lovely ball of fruit, but effectively unavailable nowadays, which is where that little bit of bittersweet sadness comes from as one finishes a bottle.

[Jonathan_Loesberg]

It should be noted that to be a first growth, the average price per bottle averaged since something like 1815 had to be 3000 francs per barrel. Baron Rothschild had raised the Chateaus prices to that level in recent years, but the average fell below that—hence the controversy. It might have been antisemitism, anglophobia or being a stickler for rules.

[Mark_Golodetz]

I did a quick check through ChatGPT of selling prices in 1855. The findings were pretty surprising, especially how small the gap was between first and second growths. Difficult to copy and there is no information about most of the second growths, but here is what we have.

Lafite,
Latour
Margaux
Haut Brion

They were all selling for 3000 francs per tonneau (1000 cases of 12)

Mouton
Cos
Gruaud Larose
They were all selling for 2700 francs