Cult California Cabs, many of which break $300 per bottle, do not look cheap in comparison to all the classified growths outside of the five firsts. And even those firsts, from so-called “off years” can be had for much cheaper. Recall futures on '08 had first growths under $250 and I think as low as $200. I’m still kicking myself on that “pass”. Commerce Corner frequently has FGs on sale for $400 and less.
As with you, my comparison is in the middle, as that is where I mostly shop. In the $50 range, very very few Cali cabs, IMHO, match up to Bordeaux. My small cellar is comprised mostly of those price-point Bordeaux that just knock my socks off. Some recent examples (some of which, have a slight flair of modern that may appeal to Cali drinkers):
2001 Monstrose
2003 Ch. St. Pierre
2004 Smith Haut Lafite
2005 Fleur Cardinale
2005 Monbousquet
2002 Cos d’Estournel
I feel the same way about Rhones, from the $12 CDRs that are unbeatable in quality and value, to the $30 Gigondas that are world-class, to higher-grade CDPs and syrahs that are stellar.
And Chinon/Saumur . . . . YUM YUM and CHEAP. One of my favorite wines all year has been the 2005 Joguet Clos de la Dioterie, which cost me all of $30. Just ordered a bunch of 09 Baudry for $30 and under.
Where I would agree with the OP, is Zin. An American classic. One of the very few Cali wines I buy with any regularity, and the standout, Ridge, being one of the few wines from any region where I typically buy 1-2 cases per year of every vintage.
I think French value and California value are about on par…meaning it is there if you wish to find it. Certainly plenty of non-value as well with First Growths/ Grand Crus as well as your Screaming Eagles and Napa cabs.
No. Or, wait, “it’s all relative to your tastes.” and No. I think that on the whole Spain is the best at the < $10 category, but over that I find more to like in French wines at any price point. There are also some very good values in Italy. But Italy also may offer some of the most head-scratchingly inflated prices that I ever encounter. The Loire valley is the king for value I think. The lesser regarded regions of Burgundy, including Beaujolais in that group (for simplicity’s sake) are also excellent. There is great value in the South if you like that sort of wine. Even in the infamously priced Northern Rhone you can still find values in awesome Syrah, delivered in their inimitable style. BDX has great value amongst the less famous wines. For me a petite chateau bordeaux is a direct competitor to Cali cab, but it tends to be cheaper and more food friendly. And, like Berry said, Riesling from Germany is an awesome value.
But, if your real question is “who delivers the most value at $75, or at $100, or at $250” then those would prompt completely different answers, because in most of the regions that I just listed, you don’t have to spend that money to get world-class wines. In some of them I’m not sure that you can spend that much - unless you want to go large format.
Almost every wine region has good values and wines that are unbelievably overpriced. People who spend time studying the region know the difference and tend not to get burned. For me, I am much more likely to find value in Burgundy than in California Pinot because I know where to look for it.
That being said, the better regions overall for wine values tend not to be from California. This is really silly. I am sure that there are other wine regions that provide excellent value wines, but I would start with Germany, Alsace, the Loire and Southern France. In these regions, one can get top quality wine from the top producers in the top terroirs from $20 to $50, including superstar producers like JJ Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr, Trimbach CFE, any of Huet’s vineyards, and many others.
Nope, Cali is so overpriced for so many producers it’s ridiculous. Portugal Douro dry wines are a steal though. Where else can you get a bottle that year in and year out is scored 92-94 points for $35-40 bucks? The most expensive cult wine there is only $120-130 and that gets scores of 95-97 points.
I agree with this, but there are “market imperfections” that have impacted certain regions. Land values in Napa are inordinately high. “Irrational” (to me, at least) luxury buying from new Asian money has affected pricing of high-end Bordeaux and Burgundy.
This is not a new story to anyone, but around eight years ago I purchased two clarets - 02 Ridge Monte Bello and 00 Lafite. I believe the Ridge was priced at about $70 and the Lafite at $240. While I love both wines, I believed (at the time) that the Ridge was a much better “value.” While the quality of both wines has remained consistent, Monte Bello today costs around $85 on futures, and I don’t even want to know what the Lafite costs. On the Pinot front, 09 Village reds are priced at roughly par with high end offerings from Copain, Rhys, Littorai, Rochioli, Dehlinger, Williams Selyem, Mount Eden, Windy Oaks …
I don’t think I would like to venture a guess as to what the “best values” in wine are today (although Zinfandel and Riesling do stand out to me), but it’s not hard to identify the worst.
I agree with this sentiment 100%. For pure pleasure and complexity per dollar, it’s tough to beat. That said, if you limit your search to red wines, I think Oregon pinot, some Washington syrah, and Cali syrah/cab/GSM are not a bad value area. I think many will point to reasonably priced Italian wines, but for big hitter values (sorry, I don’t think most rossos are “big hitters”…same with cru beauj), I think California is probably right up there. Depends on what you mean by value though. If you mean under $30, probably not cali. If you mean under $60, Cali is probably the best (in my opinion).
For my money, the best values are found in Germany and Washington state. From both regions I can find wines of exemplary quality at prices that I consider to be more reasonable than anywhere else.
I agree that many Duoro wines are a good deal, but there are a ton that are now 60-100 a pop. They are also fairly hard to find at retailers in my state (and the states, generally from my experience). I would also say that they generally have similar flavor profiles. In cali, you can find a ton of wines of various varieties for under $60. While I agree that many producers are overpriced, there is still a ton of great wine at reasonable price points.
I hate to pile on but I have a hard time with the premise. Hard to pick against Germany for consistent value. 95% of the wines are priced under $50. Spain might be another shot, but my knowledge of Spanish wines is lacking.
As to California being a value proposition…when I rephrase his question and insert any particular grape or type, I still can think of other wine regions for each. I guess Chardonnay is probably where I see a lot of value. Some folks will turn up their nose at some of the styles, but there is a lot of variety out there at a reasonable price
Zinfandel, Chardonnay, Cab (think Round Pond, Hall, Antico, Myriad, BV Tapestry, Larkmead etc. all under $55) Grenache (Tablas Creek), Syrah (countless under $50).
Where, exactly, is the competition for QPR, generally speaking? CDP has a bunch of sub-60 wines, Washington has some good syrah, as for quality, the general consensus is anti-australian. Show me great cabernet sauvignon for $55 in other regions (at the same quality). Chardonnay? Australia, perhaps in some examples, and Oregon is improving, Chablis is also rock solid. But, generally, I think Cali is bringing it pretty well.
I think value also is a function of what wines are available in your market, and at what price. For example, here in CA there are many more sources of “inexpensive” CA wines, either from the wineries or from retail sources. By contrast, many of those same CA wines are not nearly as readily available on the East Coast. On the East Coast, there is much greater access to less expensive European wines than you typically find at retail here in CA.
I can think of many more examples of good values in CA but I was thinking in terms of across the board value. I loove what Tablas is doing, but how can you say that southern France doesn’t deliver generally more value? In cab, I agree that there are lots of great values, but you gotta admit there are a lot of $75+ Cali cabs that don’t deliver. Still you have an argument.
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