Is Bedrock the new Carlisle? (new mailers and such)

Frank_Murray_III · July 26, 2010, 3:31am

Between you guys and talking with Mr Officer, I bought a 4 pack, along with joining the mailing list. Been a long time since I added a new list but I am intrigued by the philosophy here, the old vine components, etc.

Larry_P · July 26, 2010, 5:26am

Morgan…

= Can’t wait

Morgan_Twain-Peterson · July 26, 2010, 5:49am

I am pretty stoked. Just by chance it turns out the fruit is from the same block my dad used to get for the Ravenswood wines from 1993-2002. He made some pretty killer juice from the site so I am really looking forward to working with it starting this year (understatement!).

Scott_Silton · July 26, 2010, 7:08am

Very good then! Bring on the wine!

Brian_Tuite · July 26, 2010, 1:42pm

+1

Morgan, I can stop by and pick up my wine today if this weekends orders are processed. Pretty please!

M_Dildine · July 26, 2010, 2:00pm

I don’t think you’ll be sorry Frankie! Morgan may be best known for his intensely focused old vine reds at this point, but don’t miss his flintly and subtle whites (try the Stuart Ranch Albarino, Ode to Lulu Rose and Compagni Portis Herloom White).

This is the first signficant new mailer addition for me in over two years (and I’ve dropped quite a few over that period). I’ve been following BWC closely and I continue to like what I see.

Chad_Richardson · July 26, 2010, 2:15pm

I joined the Bedrock list prior to the last release. While I haven’t tried everything I purchased, I can attest that those I have tried (Lakeview Syrah, Heirloom White) have been excellent.
When we visited Sonoma a couple weeks ago, Morgan was kind enough to allow us to visit to taste and talk about his portfolio. We had the pleasure of sampling the 3 syrahs in the upcoming release, as well as a fantastic cross-section of the other Bedrock wines. To a one, they are each unique, delicious and high QPR. The care and passion Morgan has for his art is evident in talking with him and certainly comes thru in what’s in the bottle. We were so carried away by the conversation, I took embarassingly few tasting notes; otherwise I’d share more specifics here. I do know that the red heirloom blends were the stars of the show for me.
My best advice is to get on the list while you still can.

Humberto_Dorta · July 26, 2010, 2:23pm

There went 300 bucks.

G_D_y_e_r · July 26, 2010, 2:38pm

I think it depends on the sort of business a winery is trying to run. By not raising prices a winery will leave some money on the table, but also builds brand loyalty. In tough times like this a producer who has treated its customers well is more likely to avoid economic troubles as everything sells through as planned. If customers are faced with a choice, do they go with the modestly priced producer or the one that just doubled prices? Seems like an easy choice. Not every winemaker desires to live a shallow, material life, and for those who don’t it’s probably not important to squeeze out every last dollar.

The “smash and grab” model is useful when times are good. Naive consumers chase points and the latest trend, and will pay to have that. But then the producer starts to get overly optimistic and thinks they’ll always get high scores and always be on the upswing. I think it’s turning out very few producers can continue “smash and grab” in this climate. I see evidence of producers like Sea Smoke now giving offers to people who very recently joined their mailing list. A few years ago SS was but a pipedream for anyone coming late to the party. They certainly maxed out by getting big scores and quickly raising prices, but I am not sure that they can maintain their position now that they aren’t quite as new or ‘pointy’ (at least according to WS).

Humberto_Dorta · July 26, 2010, 2:46pm

G. D y e r:

Larry Piggins:

According to Mike Officer, the waiting list to get on his mailing list appears to be in the 4-5 year range. It would be a foolish businessman who didn’t consider a price increase in that situation. At least for Carlisle, that doesn’t sound like a market that’s about to correct any time soon. That said, the waiting list may shrink much faster with a price increase.

I think it depends on the sort of business a winery is trying to run. By not raising prices a winery will leave some money on the table, but also builds brand loyalty. In tough times like this a producer who has treated its customers well is more likely to avoid economic troubles as everything sells through as planned. If customers are faced with a choice, do they go with the modestly priced producer or the one that just doubled prices? Seems like an easy choice. Not every winemaker desires to live a shallow, material life, and for those who don’t it’s probably not important to squeeze out every last dollar.

The “smash and grab” model is useful when times are good. Naive consumers chase points and the latest trend, and will pay to have that. But then the producer starts to get overly optimistic and thinks they’ll always get high scores and always be on the upswing. I think it’s turning out very few producers can continue “smash and grab” in this climate. I see evidence of producers like Sea Smoke now giving offers to people who very recently joined their mailing list. A few years ago SS was but a pipedream for anyone coming late to the party. They certainly maxed out by getting big scores and quickly raising prices, but I am not sure that they can maintain their position now that they aren’t quite as new or ‘pointy’ (at least according to WS).

RE: Seasmoke in particular and sorry for the thread drift. I loved every SS up until 2005. 06 was just a weak year all around, but 07 so far has been a bust for me. I know some people claim its an age thing, but I loved the 05’s and 04’s out of the gate. I bought 08, but if those dont get back to what I liked, Im done. I think with SS specifically there might be a bit of a quality/style issue, though that does not discount your point Greg.

Brian_Tuite · July 26, 2010, 3:06pm

Is that all?

Larry_P · July 26, 2010, 3:11pm

G. D y e r:

Larry Piggins:

According to Mike Officer, the waiting list to get on his mailing list appears to be in the 4-5 year range. It would be a foolish businessman who didn’t consider a price increase in that situation. At least for Carlisle, that doesn’t sound like a market that’s about to correct any time soon. That said, the waiting list may shrink much faster with a price increase.

I think it depends on the sort of business a winery is trying to run. By not raising prices a winery will leave some money on the table, but also builds brand loyalty. In tough times like this a producer who has treated its customers well is more likely to avoid economic troubles as everything sells through as planned. If customers are faced with a choice, do they go with the modestly priced producer or the one that just doubled prices? Seems like an easy choice. Not every winemaker desires to live a shallow, material life, and for those who don’t it’s probably not important to squeeze out every last dollar.

Greg - fair enough about building brand loyalty, but points chasing … doubling prices … shallow material lifestyle… starts to build a straw man. I don’t think was the point regarding Carlisle. I do agree though wineries raising prices have lost some of my business, even if I still love and buy the wine. No doubt a big part of Carlisle’s loyal following is not just the quality but also the QPR.

G_D_y_e_r · July 26, 2010, 4:26pm

Larry Piggins:

G. D y e r:

Larry Piggins:

According to Mike Officer, the waiting list to get on his mailing list appears to be in the 4-5 year range. It would be a foolish businessman who didn’t consider a price increase in that situation. At least for Carlisle, that doesn’t sound like a market that’s about to correct any time soon. That said, the waiting list may shrink much faster with a price increase.

I think it depends on the sort of business a winery is trying to run. By not raising prices a winery will leave some money on the table, but also builds brand loyalty. In tough times like this a producer who has treated its customers well is more likely to avoid economic troubles as everything sells through as planned. If customers are faced with a choice, do they go with the modestly priced producer or the one that just doubled prices? Seems like an easy choice. Not every winemaker desires to live a shallow, material life, and for those who don’t it’s probably not important to squeeze out every last dollar.

Greg - fair enough about building brand loyalty, but points chasing … doubling prices … shallow material lifestyle… starts to build a straw man. I don’t think was the point regarding Carlisle. I do agree though wineries raising prices have lost some of my business, even if I still love and buy the wine. No doubt a big part of Carlisle’s loyal following is not just the quality but also the QPR.

Indeed, I did build myself a little straw man, but I often find many straws to grasp at!

I was mainly responding to the term ‘foolish’ to describe modest pricing. You could probably argue any pricing system that is not sustainable is foolish, be it a producer not covering costs or a producer outpricing demand.

At any rate, I think it should be viewed more as the norm than the exception that a producer like Bedrock or Carlisle aims to keep prices reasonable. We should also keep in mind by selling direct to consumer they are doing much better than by going through the 3-tier system. A wine that sells for $30 at retail they probably sell to the distributor for around half that amount. Of course they must do more work to sell direct, but no doubt it’s worth it with a full mailing list. That alone would suggest a direct to customer sales should offer a better value, though I would not begrudge a producer pricing higher when the quality is there.

G_D_y_e_r · July 26, 2010, 4:36pm

Humberto Dorta:

G. D y e r:

Larry Piggins:

According to Mike Officer, the waiting list to get on his mailing list appears to be in the 4-5 year range. It would be a foolish businessman who didn’t consider a price increase in that situation. At least for Carlisle, that doesn’t sound like a market that’s about to correct any time soon. That said, the waiting list may shrink much faster with a price increase.

I think it depends on the sort of business a winery is trying to run. By not raising prices a winery will leave some money on the table, but also builds brand loyalty. In tough times like this a producer who has treated its customers well is more likely to avoid economic troubles as everything sells through as planned. If customers are faced with a choice, do they go with the modestly priced producer or the one that just doubled prices? Seems like an easy choice. Not every winemaker desires to live a shallow, material life, and for those who don’t it’s probably not important to squeeze out every last dollar.

The “smash and grab” model is useful when times are good. Naive consumers chase points and the latest trend, and will pay to have that. But then the producer starts to get overly optimistic and thinks they’ll always get high scores and always be on the upswing. I think it’s turning out very few producers can continue “smash and grab” in this climate. I see evidence of producers like Sea Smoke now giving offers to people who very recently joined their mailing list. A few years ago SS was but a pipedream for anyone coming late to the party. They certainly maxed out by getting big scores and quickly raising prices, but I am not sure that they can maintain their position now that they aren’t quite as new or ‘pointy’ (at least according to WS).

RE: Seasmoke in particular and sorry for the thread drift. I loved every SS up until 2005. 06 was just a weak year all around, but 07 so far has been a bust for me. I know some people claim its an age thing, but I loved the 05’s and 04’s out of the gate. I bought 08, but if those dont get back to what I liked, Im done. I think with SS specifically there might be a bit of a quality/style issue, though that does not discount your point Greg.

Sorry, don’t want to derail the thread further, but I’m wondering if prices hadn’t gone up so high with SS if more folks wouldn’t have been willing to wait it out to see where things were going. Not every vintage will be everyone’s favorite, plus changes in a winery can lead to transitional periods.

Back on topic, I have really enjoyed reading the Bedrock blog on occaision. The entry on micro-oxing with Michael Havens is especially interesting.

Larry_P · July 26, 2010, 7:05pm

All excellent points Greg, and hopefully for Morgan & Bedrock’s sake, threads like this help get the word out.

Rick_Gregory · July 26, 2010, 7:17pm

INtriguing stuff… However, going to the site redirects me to an IP address and pops up a malware alert in Chrome. More info here: Google Transparency Report" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Might want to fix that…

Morgan_Twain-Peterson · July 26, 2010, 7:23pm

Yes, I might! Thank you for letting me know, I will get on it. Did the same thing to me when I tried to get onto the site just now. The normal Bedrock site is just fine, it is the blog that seems to be having some issues right now.

Thanks!
Morgan

scottschu · July 26, 2010, 9:24pm

Morgan, does your list ship to Maryland like Carlisle and Copain do? I’m finding very few wineries want to fill out the paperwork, but Mike O. says it is relatively painless.

Morgan_Twain-Peterson · July 26, 2010, 10:26pm

Yep, I can!

K_R_Baker · July 26, 2010, 11:20pm

Morgan Twain-Peterson:

Wow, all the kind words about the wines are humbling, but I am certainly happy to hear people are enjoying the Bedrock efforts. I am certainly not qualified to comment on whether Bedrock is the next Carlisle, or anything along those lines, but Carlisle is certainly one of my favorite wineries and Mike O. one of my favorite people.

The one thing I can comment on is this. The prices for Bedrock will not go up-- it is, quite literally, not in my DNA. I buy a lot of wine and have worked as a wine-buyer while in college and there is very little that irks me more than wine whose price is not commensurate to its quality. Wine, IMHO, should be delicious, interesting, and generally available to most. This was the philosophy my dad embraced when he started Ravenswood, and is one embraced by some of my favorites producers. The pricing formula is pretty straightforward-- if I buy fruit for $3500 a ton, the wine will be right around $35, with a little play in there depending on oak (and I do only use the best barrels I can buy). In some cases I actually drop the price substantially from this as well-- the three 2008 Hudson wines will go out to the list for $39, even though I pay $5500 a ton for the fruit. I may barely break even, but if I can sell the wine it means I get to work with some amazing fruit, which is worth it to me. The same will go for Monte Rosso, which is upwards of $4000 a ton for the old-vine Zinfandel, but whose final wine I will likely sell for $38 or so.

The current economic climate only reinforces my feeling about wine pricing. Be a little humble with price, make interesting wines from great spots, and people will continue to want to purchase from you while the take less of their allocation of the super-expensive stuff. Also, as some can already tell, I like to experiment a lot, and I need some margin for error if I ever screw something up!

Thanks again for the kind words and I look forward to hearing what you think of the 2009 reds as they come out.

hard not to buy after reading this post. placing an order shortly. and morgan, i’d like to thank you in advance cuz these sure sound good!