Interesting read, but a bit redundant, as he kept mentioning that same point over and over and over.
Yet she has denied that the problem is as widespread as it is and championed horribly flawed wines herself.
I agree, although I doubt it will be. Maybe if more people who rightfully command as much respect as he does speak out in this way, some people will start to get it. I will say that I think the article overstates the case a bit. There are still a lot of sommeliers out there who care greatly for their craft and the guest experience. I can understand being frustrated with how widespread hipsterism has become in the business, but I disagree with the implication that most young sommeliers are a part of it. Maybe my view is skewed by the people I happen to interact with.
But she singled out this interview as an example of bad wine writing. Go figure.
I didn’t know it elicited a response from her. Can you post it?
To your last part, I have always made point to attach myself to those that I think of are of the highest caliber. I think we are both lucky 
Someone sent me this post of hers on Facebook. Rereading her post, her complaint seems to be more about the editing than the content or the writing.
The editing is garbage and I’m not really that interested in the content. I don’t know Mr. Stuckey but I believe John S. that he is a great guy, but he’s about 20 years too late with this get-off-my-lawn rant. For many people, a point of view from a wine list is more interesting than having the same boring shit. I’ve found that the sommeliers whom I have had the best experience and whom I respect most haven’t taken any tests and hold no certifications. His restaurants might be fine and Little Nell had a great list only because it had everything. Easy to do. I do agree that the type of service may not be what folks are historically used to, it’s much more familiar and laid back. What sommeliers do on insta promoting their brand isn’t really for us geezers. Daniel is still around, you don’t have to go to Wild Air.
The fact of the matter is, making what is commonly termed “natural wine” is difficult. There will be plenty of mistakes. Folks whose wines I dismissed as terrible 10 years ago are now consistently excellent. Methods associated with “natural wine” are now mainstream. Jean-Marie Fourrier uses concrete eggs. Jean-Marc Roulot uses amphorae. Last time I looked, it seemed like the entire Musigny vineyard was plowed by horse. Remember, it’s mostly about better farming and less manipulation. These are uniformly good things.
Flawed wine is flawed wine, but remember, there are lots of Rhône and Bordeaux with plenty of brett and many Burgundies that suffer from terminal reduction and Napa cabernet ripe with VA. That’s not even getting started on “internationalized” wines in all sorts of places that stripped the wines of any character.
This is ironic.
Haha this video was created based off the interview.
Quite.
Thanks for posting, Ian. My response is basically an echo of Jim’s.
To me a big part of the problem is that somms work long hours and don’t get paid that much. So being a somm is a kind of apprenticeship. Maybe some of them party too much but what I see is people who show up to work at 10 am to do inventory and leave at midnight. Most of them are college educated and as soon as marriage and family come into the picture it’s all over…unless they can move up the ladder into ownership or move sideways into being brand ambassadors etc. How many well paying jobs are there? Here in SF finding people for restaurants is harder and harder because nobody can afford to live here unless they already own their place or have rent control working for them.
What happens is that the somms move on. Paul Roberts–formerly of Cafe Annie and the French Laundry–is now the gm at Colgin. Raj has his own wineries. Bobby has his restaurants. Larry Stone–Meilleur Sommelier du Monde and mentor to people like Raj–hasn’t been a somm for what, 20 years??
The saying of Alice Waters that you need seven years to become a good waiter reminds me of a dinner at Chez Panisse hosted by Randall Grahm, to honor Sally Clarke–famous London restaurateur–and Jasper Morris, who now runs the Hospices de Beaune auction. I was sitting next to Sally’s maitre d, when the waiter spilled water onto his plate.
The guy lifts the plate, pours the water off, puts the plate down and says to us, Shit happens.
I guess it was only his sixth year.
Last night my wife and I had dinner at Aska in Brooklyn. The wines list is heavily natural (with a few notable exceptions, for example some Egon Muller wines) and pretty much all small production with many esoteric choices. I’m pretty daring and I like trying new things, and while I’d tried many of the wines on the menu many were new to me. However, given the wines that I knew on the list I was pretty sure I was better off bringing wine. At this point I’ve been able to try enough that I feel confident in my own preferences (and my wife’s) and I knew I was going to have a hard time with the list. I appreciate the thought that went into it, and I have no doubt that whoever put the list together did so in an effort to create the best possible experience for guests, but there was much on the list that I didn’t have any interest in drinking and others (Lauer and D’Angerville) that I love but didn’t want to pay the markup for.
Despite all that, I found the experience to be about the most hospitable and wonderful from a service perspective that I’ve had in New York (really anywhere I suppose). They sent me the list in advance, answered questions, allowed corkage, and gave phenomenal service for the wines I brought, including a choice of glasses and all the right questions about how/when to serve. Everyone at the restaurant was not just professional but fun and gracious and they treated us like they were thrilled to have us. They were great.
I mention this because I think that a really good somm and a really good restaurant staff strike me as being able to make a guest feel great even when they might have preferences that are different than those that are at the core of the restaurant’s mission. And from my perspective, I’m no less comfortable the list from Aska than I am with a wine list full of high-priced classified Bordeaux chateau and big name Cali wines. I think Bobby’s position is a little unimaginative. The wine list is the wine list. Taking good care of the guest is something else entirely.
AG
The service may have been great, but you still had to bring your own wine since the list didn’t cater to you. I think Bobby was trying to paint a complete picture. I’m sure there are plenty of places where you could have had the opposite experience- insane list, lackluster service.
I think Bobby nails it in this article. When mentoring Sommeliers now the biggest challenge I face is instilling in them that the list is not suppose to be a reflection of what they like or do not like. You curate a list based on the demographic you sell to, and based on the “vision” Of the program and restaurant.
And Sommeliers today are in a rush to get the “pins.” I’m not sure how many times I have to repeat to them that it is not about the pin! It’s the journey, the time and dedication to studying, to learning, to networking, Tasting, sharing and understanding Hospitality. Not service, but Hospitality. See Bobby Stuckey’s TED Talk via YouTube if you are unsure of the difference. Bobby is truly a Master in the art of Hospitality.
And I agree completely with Bobby that it is only once you have passed the Advance exam that you have achieved the level of knowledge and experience to understand and fulfill the role of a true Sommelier. And I’ll just put a stop to the idea that certifications are pointless. They are essential in providing a means to educate Sommeliers. There is a reason so many give up after not being able to pass their Advance exam, and then join the camp of anti-certification. It’s because it is really HARD, and takes dedication, long hours of study, requires you to taste and taste and taste….and to learn hospitality and humility. I’m not going to debate it, as I have lived it, paid my dues, continue to pay my dues, and have over two decades restaurant and have over a decade of experience working the floor and mentoring Sommeliers. Honestly (and this is solely my opinion), I think every aspiring Master Sommelier should be required to work a full harvest, from picking and sorting, to doing punch downs and pressing, to barreling down, inoculating, topping up and bottling….oh the glorious bottling line 
. It gives you an entirely different perspective to physically make wine with your own hands, from vine to bottle.
You also become more aware of the faults in Winemaking, and you begin to appreciate the people that make it…much more and on a very different level of respect.
While I agree with Bobby that “natural wines” in the sense of the styles of Radikon, Gravner, or Valdipovic are simply part of a movement passing off faulted wines with a story…I hope to redefine “natural” wine in my interactions on the floor and with my own wines. For me there is a clear distinction between “natural” wine, making wine naturally, and manufacturing wine. Quality is found in the middle. For me it’s just as shocking to open a faulted “natural” wine, as it is to try six single vineyard Pinot Noirs that were inoculated with the same yeasts, pumped full of the same recipe of adds, and all taste the same.
Brandon,
First off, welcome to the board! Second, are you ITB? If so, please add that to your signature - it’s the courteous thing to do.
Plenty of Somms do make wine - or lend their names to wine. It’s a great move for them - somehow their wines seem to make it onto more lists than others ![[snort.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/b/bdc3944606213c4dca6c1169cf0a166c8bc4f8c9.gif "snort.gif"){kind=small}
I’m not sure it’s ‘necessary’ for them to work a harvest - just as it’s not ‘necessary’ for winemakers to work the floor in a restaurant. But it couldn’t hurt.
I do want to ‘counter’ the concept of your last sentence - just because you inoculate with the same yeast does NOT mean that the final wine will be the same . . . just as if you ferment the same grapes with ‘native’ yeast 10 times, you will not end up with the same wine. Yeast has a job to do - take it from grape to finished wine - and the ‘characteristics’ of a wine are not defined by a yeast, whether it is a ‘commercial’ one or a ‘natural’ one.
Cheers.
Larry,
Having worked on both sides now, I have found that there are huge misunderstandings and generalizations made on both sides. I honestly believe our business as a whole would benefit from a bit of first hand experience for both of the others actual work.
And we’ll have to agree to disagree on yeasts. Inoculating definitely takes away from the indigenous character of the grape. Terroir is not just geological, but microbial. This is of course, just my opinion.
However, not my opinion…but fact, is that you can choose yeasts that express certain characters, that dominate with certain aromas. This does take away from the sense of place. I’m not saying these wines are inferior, but they lack balance. They give this sense of being forced into something they are not.
Oddly, six months ago I was completely against the idea of making wine naturally. Now having first hand experience, I cannot imagine inoculating for fermentation or MLF. I definitely cannot imagine pumping in “adds” that completely change the wine.
Brandon,
Thanks for your reply and your new signature.
I understand what you are saying, and certainly if you analyze wines immediately after fermentation is complete ordering fermentation with a microscope, you will see my new differences in activity.
The real question is whether or not these Carrie 4th all the way through elevage Kama especially if a wine is aged in any kind of vessel that allows for any kind of oxidation. Overtime, any differences will be minimized.
Yes, the commercial yeast companies tout that their specific yeast will add this or that to a wine, but in reality, I have not seen this play out in finished wines. And that is really the key - looking at things down the line, not immediately after fermentation is complete.
Again, your mileage may vary, and I understand where you’re coming from philosophically - I completely agree that less is more when it comes to wine making. That said, I’m just not sure that the science that is out their backs your claims.