Pardon me for another topic about Burgundy and subject that has already been discussed in many occasions, but it seems to be a complex one. And it strongly looks like Burgundy will form a significant (and surely most expensive) part of my cellar so I am interested in how berserkers approach catching burgundies in their preferred window.
In my limited experience I have actually had most luck with red burgs that are in the age range of 5-10 years, which I guess is supposed to be a dangerously closed period. A few 20+ year old bottles that I’ve tried have not really been easy to recognize as Burgundy and the young wines have felt too fruit-dominated. More personal exploration is surely needed, but I would appreciate borrowing forum’s collective experience.
I’ve noticed opinions that it is a waste to drink grand crus before they reach the age of 20 years. But at the same time I know a few serious wine drinkers that want to drink their DRC young. I hear that Bourgougne and village level are the ones that you should be drinking young, but at the same time their ageability is underappreciated. It seems like a beautiful mess!
So what is YOUR approach and what do you feel strongly about? Are there perhaps villages or producers that you always treat with patience or feel like they should be approached early? What about the whites?
Ideally you’d drink the wine at varying maturity levels so you personally understand how they age. There’s nothing wrong with visiting grand cru early. If you don’t know how they change as they mature you’re missing out on a lot of knowledge. That being said, they do change, generally for the better, with time.
The somewhat frustrating answer is, it depends on vintage, producer and the wine. In general, I think there’s no real harm opening up most village (and Bourgogne) young, but after that it’s more art than science. Most grand crus will not drink particularly well early, especially ones made with a lot of oak. That said, while an RSV from the same producer in 2015 won’t drink well young, the 2008 is probably quite nice while the 2005 is probably unyielding.
I suspect your experiences with “older Burgundy” are likely to be with bottles that have had questionable storage and may not be toward the higher end of the scale, though feel free to correct me. That said, Burgundy 20 years ago was on average of more questionable quality than it is today.
Some people argue that there’s nothing wrong with opening up grand crus early “for science” and it is true -people should drink their wines however they want. But there’s often no learning to be had there - you’ll get effectively the same experience by opening a village or 1er cru from the same producer. It’s often equivalent to sticking a fork in a socket in the interest of confirming whether the electricity is still on.
I rarely drink any red Burgundy before age 10-12 years, except some plain Bourgogne, and a few 2011s. I started to drink some 2007s in 2017/18, and now also open 2008/09, but rather Village or lesser Prem.Crus (Beaune, Chassagne-)
Best time might be 15 to 25 years, 30 plus for the best GCs
I recently had a 1998, 2001, 2003 and 2006 Clos des Lambrays. So, 17 to 25 years old. All pretty mature. All VERY recognizable as Burgundy. From a mix of vineyards but from an excellent producer. I know that the 2001 and 2006 were wines bought around released and well stored. I don’t know how the 1998 and 2003 were stored, but they tasted well stored.
What wines did you have at 20+ years that were not recognizable as Burgundies? It is really tough to discuss things like this in generalities without you providing any useful facts. Were they from good producers? The keys in burgundy are producer, producer, producer and storage.
I should add, my monthly Burgundy group usually once a year does a tasting of the vintage that is 10 years old, so this year we did 2013s. All the wines drank pretty well (they were open) but none were really mature (not yet showing secondary or tertiary characteristics).
When we did a tasting of 2007s last month, the wines were uniformly wonderful, although some still need more age. One person no longer had any 2007s so he brought two 2017s. These were from excellent producers (premier crus from Duroche and Arlaud) and the wines were delicious, but were very primary and were way too young.
As a crude generalization, I tend to look for twenty five plus years for Grand Cru, fifteen for premier and anything over ten for village. But then I have had in the last week an eight year old premier Cru, delicious but not ready, and a Tremblay Bourgogne 2016 and ditto for that one too. No hard and fast rules.
A more serious answer is that I am never really sure, so zi randomly grab a bottle every now and then. A 1999 Bruno Clair SLB Dominode the other week was in the zone.
Most of the time I grab a bottle of Burgundy, and then put it back, thinking “not yet.”
The most high-end “Old Burgundy” I’ve had was 1990 Grands-Echezeaux from Mongeard-Mugneret. While it was still a great experience to try it, I think that was simply a non-optimal bottle as our host told us that his previous bottle of the same wine was showing significantly better. My other example, 2005 Sylvie Esmonin Gevrey-Chambertin VV felt surprisingly(?) also past its prime.
My point was mostly that I do believe that I have not yet come across a great example of an aged Burgundy. So while hoping and trying to get a chance to taste more personally, it is interesting to read thoughts from more experienced tasters.
There are great experiences to be had with Burgundies of all ages but when you have a well-kept '78, '71, '66, '64, '62, or beyond, you will find yourself saying, “Now this is what it’s all about” in a way you never will about anything 5 or 10 years old.
Burgundy, like Barolo, is never objectively “ready.” Drink your wines early, middle-aged, well-aged, and old. Just be sure to drink them. You will figure it out.
05 is a difficult vintage to wade through with no experience. Also sounds like poor storage on both bottles, which is all too common. Also MM isn’t really a great producer. Just need to keep drinking.
MMs 90s are/were no real successes, 1991s were much better, GE 91 was a great wine.
Also 1999s are a bit disapointing, 1997s better in the context of the vintage, but now a bit fading.
Yikes, it’s even worse. When David made a down-thread reference to ‘being serious’ I thought perhaps he was gently (consider the source) scolding my juvenile remark.
I purchase a lot of Village wines, Cote de Chalonnaise and upper tier Bourgogne wines and usually start popping corks at ten years of age. We are seeing more “ripe” vintages than ever before, so quite a few start drinking fine at 6-8 years of age. Premier Cru and up at 15-20 years of age. I rarely purchase 1er Cru Burgundy anymore because of the prices, so most of the one’s in the cellar will probably sit there a bit longer than normal.
