If Bordeaux is the loser....

WINE TALK
1

Does that make Piedmont the winner.

Seriously, it seems like there is something of a relationship between the demise of one and the rise of the other. 10 years ago I could pretty much be counted on as the only one bringing Barolo to offlines around these parts, at least with any semblance of regularity. And even then no one was particularly interested in the fact that I’d brought one, yet again.

Today Piedmont has turned into a powerhouse on these boards with so many people on the bandwagon declaring the region as their new love or responsible for best wines of the year etc. All that attention must have previously been focused elsewhere, and the only big ticket region to suffer such a demise has been Bordeaux, as far as I can tell.

Just curious to hear where you’ve diverted funds from if you’ve more recently begun buying Piedmontese wines.

2

I don’t know the answer but hopefully any future growth comes as the expense of burgundy

3

Funny, I’m hoping for almost the same thing, but not quite.

Come on folks, those Burgs are way more attractive than these Barolos.

And the label is int he same language too!

4

Don’t look at me, IIRC I own 1.5 bottles of Barolo. My interest in Tuscany has had a severe uptick recently though, pretty much at the expense of Burgundy.

5

For years, Bordeaux was my main financial wine outlay.

Due to enough Bordeaux to last a long time, the sky-rocketing prices, and Parker-Bordeaux-Hype-and-Rolland-Style fatigue, I no longer buy much Bordeaux (except old vintages on auction).

In this void, Italy is the winner, but not just Piedmont… in addition to Barolo and Barbaresco, Campania and Tuscany have continued to impress me and take a bigger and bigger place in the cellar and on the table.

6

“Bordeaux”

Che cos’è?

dc.

7

the money i used to spend on BDX is now being spent on the Loire…but I know it’ll eventually spill over into Piedmont.

8

Tuscany? Tu?

Not what I would have expected. I mean, the fruit gets ripe there!

:slight_smile:

9

I think people in that Bordeaux thread, and Asimov, pegged it: Bordeaux has gotten sort of boring and pricey, so people are exploring other areas.

Piemonte was a natural area to check out because, over the past 20 years or so, there has been a big rise in quality in Piedmont. Even if you don’t like the De Grazia wines, they were nonetheless (mostly) clean and not dried out. More recently the new wave of traditionalists has come to the fore, producing first class wines. So there’s a lot of good wine to choose from at prices (excepting Giacosa and G. Conterno and Voerzio and a handful of others) that is very modest compared to, say, second growth Bordeaux or even good premier cru Burgundy.

There’s an analogy to food, I think: As people take it more seriously, they often want to explore new cuisines. So with wine.

My guess is that in a couple of years, Piemonte will get less attention. And I think the appeal will be limited ultimately by the tannins. The mass market will never go for such hard tannins.

10

A recent 1988 Biondi Santi Greppo Brunello was the culprit.

11

Thinking of starting a Barbaresco collection, but want no truck with Barolo, a true wine for sadomasochists or time-travelers…

12

+1. Does that mean these wine will spike now? I am 55 and Barolo takes too long to mature (like Bordeaux) and I do like the delicate style of Barbaresco. Marchesi di Gresy is in my wheelhouse and radar now.

13

I think the aging has more to do with producers’ styles than the appellation, so you don’t need to limit yourself so. There are lots of 98 and 99 Baroli that are drinking nicely now, as well as some from this decade.

14

In a word, yes.

My Bordeaux purchases have tailed off and I have been buying more N Rhone, Loire and now Piedmont. Giacosa may be my undoing…

15

I find it interesting that the hypothesis is that Bdx. dollars are going to Piedmont rather than to Tuscany (where Bdx. varietals are grown). To the extent that the hypothesis is true, why is that so? Do Piedmontese wines have a flavor profile that’s more similar to Bdx.'s flavor profile than do Tuscan wines? Or is it more about structure? What is it that makes a former Bdx. buyer choose one region over another in their redirection of Bdx. funds?

16

Awesome question Brian, mirrors my thoughts.

i was thinking about this and it seems to be that there may very well be some correlation, but why?

I don’t think it has anything to do with the wines per se. I think it’s the hierarchy in Barolo and how it mirrors Bordeaux in many ways.

Different comunes, each with their range of producers. Yes, it is more similar to Burgundy but that’s not the point, the point is where is a natural move from Bordeaux.

Tuscany has much less of a formalized rating so it’s not quite as easy to cherry pick the best.

There’s also the satisfaction of buying a wine that is recognized as being among the best, even if perhaps it’s not quite what one is accustomed to, or prefers for that matter.

17

I have a feeling this is it, although I highly doubt anybody will admit it. The “cool factor,” so to speak.

18

My Bdx purchasing these days is limited to the odd 15-30 year old bottles on the secondary market - things like Meyneys, Talbots, etc that aren’t overly expensive relative to the rest of Bordeaux, but are still going up in price. Certainly solid wines, but most of my wine budget is going towards the Rhone or Loire for reds.

If not Giacosa, it’ll be Allemand (or other Cornas). neener

(On that note, when are you heading up to CT to drink some 85 Verset?)

19

setting up ugc weekend in NYC again. We should do something then.

F

20

Just my 2 cents…
But I think that the reason that BDX is out of fad is that all the people that have been drinking wine for at least ten years remember when $200 for a first growth was expensive and all the younger drinkers look at the prices as being astronomical to begin with.

I have sold or traded the majority of my expensive BDX because I can’t justify drinking a wine that’s $1000, when I can sell or trade it and get 3-4 cases of really good wine that will bring me 36-48 really nice drinking experiences (fingers crossed)
For me $1000 is a once in a lifetime experience or a one in every couple of year experience vs. average drinking, same as going to 5-7 really nice bistro’s vs. blowing my wad on a 11 course prix fix menu that cost the same.

The main reason that the younger generation is shifting away from BDX is because they never got the taste for it, it’s not cheap and it’s not everyday drinking (anymore). I hear stories all the time of how LLC or Palmer use to be $40-$50 in relative dollars, which for a new drinker would be like buying a $40-$50 dollar top tier Oregon Pinot or Wa Cab, expensive but not so much that one would never try or drink one. Now to get a top tier BDX it’s $150-$200 (Pavie, Palmer, LLC, Montrose, ect…)yes there are deals but in general the price tag and marketing seem quit high.
Also when the older generation got into wine, Chianti came in wicker baskets and Burgundy was from California (huge generalization, but you get the point) so the selection was limited, Jura…who? Cab Franc…what? Ribolla?

I don’t agree that Piedmonte is benefitting from the BDX, tar, tannin, high acid are not necessarily traits that the new drinker are looking for as well as the price. 10 years ago a really good Barbera or Dolcetto could be had for $15, now a good Barbera is close to $40 again not something that a younger drinker would jump head in for. Barolo is now in the $50-$100 range and to be honest I can’t wait until it goes the way of Brunello (highly discounted and readily available)

Wines from Piedmonte are, to an extent, an acquired taste, not really fruit forward, but lot’s of licorice, tar, game and funk.

But Loire, for $12 I can get a great 09’ ripe, fruit forward cab franc that someone can sink their teeth into and drink on regularity and won’t break the bank.
I know people can find value in BDX but not for $12 (yes there are futures, but hardly ever on retail shelves) but with Aussies, Spain, loire, ect, why would you pick BDX, especially since there are ‘cult’ producers now in every region?