I won't go into specifics but...

[Scott_Tallman]

Been saying this for years and the reality of it is finally settling in. Pinot Gris outside of basically one place on earth just isn’t that amazing. It has a distinct ceiling to it and given its relative ease to grow, relative low acidity and relative early picking dates makes it an easy thing to market at a mass level and sell in quantities to airports and banquets halls. It’s inoffensive and ignorable which are two highly marketable characteristics of large production wines.

So, in Oregon it will and is becoming stratified into basically 2 (and with a nod folks like Marcus and Kelley Fox and a couple/few others, 3) distinct groups. The first is simply the volume people. Make thousands, preferably 10s of thousands of cases of it. Profit by volume. The second is the amount a winery could sell out of there tasting room from, probably, what they have planted at their Estate or some sort of tightly held vineyard. Different amounts for different wineries. But, in general, not that much. The third is the small amount of people doing something different and unique with it. Anything in between is death. Growers of it trying to sell it as fruit are finding limited buyers as only a small handful of the big boys. It’s just not a very diverse wine to sell.

I may not like this post, but it’s mostly true.

I do not think Pinot Gris in the Willamette Valley can be as profound as Chardonnay or Riesling from the Willamette Valley. But I do think there is a place for it as a great grape. It’s versatility allows for a remarkable range of very lovely expressions…in the hands of a dedicated and talented producer.

It’s a challenging grape to do well, requiring a similar commitment to detail, effort, and understanding what the grapes need in order for the wine to be special. But Pinot Gris can be beautifully crisp and linear as a dry white wine, it can be beautifully textural fermented in acacia, and I really prefer the Ramato of Pinot Gris, that both Cameron and myself are doing, to 95% of the rose produced in Oregon(I still don’t understand why we are ripping out Gris while there’s a new crappy pink wine released every day). The Rouge de Gris from Vincent and Cameron are also both very distinct and very enjoyable wines. I prefer them to most Oregon Gamay, just because they seem to have a better resonance with old world savory wines than current Willamette Valley Gamay wines are achieving(I do like WV Gamay though, just not as much).

In the end, IMO, Pinot Gris is stuck between the rock of being made by every half talented winery and big production winery in Oregon because it’s almost always drinkable and relatively few average consumers are that familiar with wines from Germany, Alto Adige, or Friuli(so there’s low bar to jump over for most producers to make one and find it salable) and the hard place of a $25 maximum price point. I appreciate Rick and Jim’s asides for my wines, Eyrie, and Kelley Fox.

The reality for me is that I make no money what-so-ever on the reserve Pinot Gris. None. It’s fermented in $2000 apiece 800L acacia foudres, aged for 18 month, being topped and treated for that time just like Pinot Noir, and sells in Oregon for $20 because that’s what Pinot Gris costs, and I don’t have the time to paddle upstream to try and get someone to pay me $35 for the wine. Plus, it’s a really nice wine from a grape that compares reasonably with Melon de Bourgogne, and Clos de Briords is $25-28, so I don’t think $35 is smart.

That said, I grafted half of the Pinot Gris at Whistling Ridge over to Chardonnay clones from Clos Electrique this spring, and I doubt anyone will mind that change.

I own a few bottles of the Cameron Rouge de Gris, but never tasted it. Just opened the 2014. Waaaay more interesting than any Oregon Pinot Gris I’ve tried (edit to add, instead of “interesting” I should have noted “distinctive” as Eyrie’s PG and Your Clover are really interesting, this wine is a different animal than those). Not sure if it’s the fermentation on the skins, the Vineyard source (Abbey Ridge), the ripeness, or the Cameron funk (oh, it’s there, although I found it subtle but others may find it more obtrusive), but a very interesting wine with a nice savory component. Not one I’d want to drink regularly, but I would not be disappointed to drink 1-2 bottles a year.

Even though I really enjoy your Ramato of Pinot Gris, I won’t mind at all you working with Clos Electrique cuttings of Chardonnay at WR at the expense of Pinot Gris.

[Rich_K0rz_nk0]

I would very much hope that Jim is referring to Alsace.

Probably, but that wouldn’t give enough credit to the Germans. I’ve generally preferred Grauburgunders (the German name) to most Alsatian pinot gris, as they have more acid. Sadly, they are pretty much impossible to find here. Donnhoff makes a great one, but it’s not imported, so far as I know.

I think the best ones I have had have been from Trimbach, Albert Mann and Zind Humbrecht (esp. for stickies).

A lot of this, and I’m a generally perking my ears up for anything in the Friuli-Venezia Giulia arena where it can play center stage or just play ever-so-nice within a paint palate of varietals.

[jcoley3]

Yup. As much as I like PG from Marcus, Kelley and a few others, I’ve had awesome Chardonnay from a broader swath of producers at different price points. Seems like a no brained for various reasons mentioned in this thread that PG plantings finally fall back to reality while Chardonnay increases. Hell, I’d like to see it fall below Pinot Blanc as I’ve had many enjoyable bottles of OR PB that outshine PG IMO.

Ditto, I’ve had much more interesting PB than PG from Oregon.

• another.

[Neal.Mollen]

we did the wine tourism thing this past Sunday after seeing Tedeschi-Trucks band outdoors in the rain Saturday night in Salem. If you can see this band and you enjoy RnR music or big bands drop everything to go, they are extraordinary.

Anyway on Sunday we went to three Willamette Valley wineries, board darlings and unknowns, and tasted and chatted. WV is so beautiful to visit, consistently stunning. So all three places were blowing out Pinot Gris, recent releases and older vintages. Upon longer visits, during more private conversations, all three places had either vignerons or estate owners tell me they were pulling out their Pinot Gris.

I’m not often surprised by the wine world but this was news to me.

No opinion on Washington wines but a big +1 on Tedeschi-Trucks live. Outstanding performers

[J_a_y_H_a_c_k]

I would very much hope that Jim is referring to Alsace.

Probably, but that wouldn’t give enough credit to the Germans. I’ve generally preferred Grauburgunders (the German name) to most Alsatian pinot gris, as they have more acid. Sadly, they are pretty much impossible to find here. Donnhoff makes a great one, but it’s not imported, so far as I know.

I think the best ones I have had have been from Trimbach, Albert Mann and Zind Humbrecht (esp. for stickies).

OMG. We agree again. Thread drift.

• 2000 Zind-Humbrecht Tokay Pinot Gris Clos Jebsal Sélection de Grains Nobles - France, Alsace (6/14/2008)
  This is an outstanding and extraordinary wine. Tasted with Olivier Humbrecht today at Zachy’s. I have had the 1998 of this wine, which was one of the best wines I have ever tasted, so let me compare them. This wine is lighter in color with higher acidity, crisper botrytis and a bit less sugar than the 1998. The 1998, which I had two years ago so approximately at the same point on the aging scale, was darker and more complex, showing the positive effects of aging. Olivier said that the 2000 will age more slowly and could last 20 to 30 years. In addition to the acid and botrytis, there was minerality, and various fruits including apricots, pineapple and pears. I expect that this wine will get better with age and develop lots of secondary characteristics. Olivier told one of the other people that he uses large barriques instead of small barrels, which keeps down the oaky, woody, vanilla flavors but I do not know if he was talking about this wine or some of his larger production items. (97 pts.)

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