I am a passionate coffee guy. Almost to the extent that I am a passionate wine guy. The similarities between the two are often striking: between farming, terroir, processing, aging, aerating, and extract, there are so many corollaries that the two intermingle in my finer beverage thoughts…
So it struck me today when I saw a coffee bag describing one of their flavors as “Pinot Grigio.” Now, I want to give coffee the stature of having delicate and distinct flavours the way that wine does, but it seems to undersell the distinctiveness of wine in the same way that describing a coffee aroma in wine sells coffee short.
Does this resonate with anybody? It gets a bit under my skin when wine tasting notes include coffee as a descriptor. But is it okay to just refer to the general idea of coffee? Or does it reinforce misunderstandings about how spectacular coffee can be?
Or is describing coffee as having a “Pinot Grigio” flavour a singular notion that has some descriptive prowess?
Obviously, the communicative nature in which we describe wine has many advantages and flaws, but I’d love to hear where the wine community stands on the idea of coffee in their wine or wine in their coffee.
Leaving aside the question of a “Pinot Grigio” descriptor in the flavor of a coffee, I don’t understand what your issue is with “coffee” as a wine aroma/flavor descriptor. I’ve tasted lots of wines that had coffee-like notes in their aromas - what’s wrong with saying that?
Since the vast majority of Pinot Grigio on the market has very little flavor, I don’t understand that descriptor at all. Do they mean “slight hints of lemon, hay, and bitterness on the finish”? As for coffee, I use it when I smell it. Could I be more specific? Maybe if I were more familiar with different types of coffee. Still, there’s a lot of coffee out there that, to me, has a pretty similar aromatic profile, especially the heavily roasted stuff that’s so popular. So, I guess I don’t care either way. If someone said a coffee smelled like Cabernet Sauvignon or Bordeaux, I would probably have some idea of what they meant, even though that would be a generalization about that category.
As others have said coffee in wine is an indication of toasted oak.
It sounds like the ‘Pinot Grigio’ descriptor is one for sales rather than accuracy. How many women who love that Santa Margarita will think ‘yum!’ when they read that bag of coffee?
Interestingly this flavor in coffee comes from the roasting and is not so much a coffee bean flavor in itself. The dark roast is something that has its own group of detractors within elitist coffee circles.
Really? I think thats a hell of a stretch. I love avocado. Not exactly a flavor that would make me go yum as a descriptor in coffe, which I also love. Not sure why the average sta margarita pinot grigio lover would go yum at that profile in coffee…
I understand that saying coffee, as a wine aroma/flavor descriptor, may be the best way to communicate a note in the wine because so many people think of coffee in a similar way.
But when I think of coffee (whether it be roast, ground, or brewed) I think of something that has multidimensional flavor/aroma that needs descriptors of it’s own. Coffee, when used as a wine descriptor, seems to be an unjustly singular thing; just like using wine as a descriptor of coffee which is equally as unspecific.
(…and I’m not saying that I perceive coffee in any particularly impressive way, I’ve just had a very positive experience of coffee that I’m passionate about sharing with others…)
In wine, I think the coffee flavor is either (a) heavily charred oak, as others have said or (b) a sign of great age. Slightly over-the-hill cabs and nebbiolo can definitely start to smell very coffee-like.
Ryan,
Here’s the rub: don’t you think the descriptors you use to describe the flavor/aroma of coffee are multidimensional in and of themselves? (i.e.: if you say coffee smells like soil and pomegranate, with a hint of orange, don’t you think you’re selling “soil,” “pomegranate,” and “orange” short?) So, what’s any different about using “coffee” as a descriptor for wine?
OK, I do understand your point, but your argument is existentialism at its most basic, so let’s just stop the never-ending spiral right now.
I like it in small doses, and I think a hint of coffee grounds is frequently prevalent in higher-tier champagnes. Don’t see it as an insult to coffee or wine, although I can’t fathom tasting pinot grigio in coffee. That sounds like the exact opposite of what I want 1) in the morning, 2) after lunch, 3) in the late afternoon on a tough day at work, or 4) after a nice meal. I’ll pass.
I think you are taking it too literally or are focusing too narrowly. When trying to sell a wide audience, versus say a forum like this, then you might take some liberties with descriptions in order to attract a wide range of customers. An audience of regular wine drinkers who drink a lot of Pinot Grigio are probably going to be interested in buying coffee beans. I’m not talking about uber geeks like us, but people who would be drinking Santa Margarita Pinot Grigio. People who are not looking at a “profile” other than ‘yum’. They are also not going to be thinking on precise terms that could be pulled from breaking something down. They never get to that point and will drink what is in front of them. They are not comparison tasters. Those beans are most likely not aimed at the coffee geek.
Maybe it’s char related, but I think more likely picking up coffee notes on a wine is a sign of the presence of sulfur compounds (which are a large part of what give coffee its smell). Similar to skunk aroma (notice how, if you catch just a whiff of skunk odor it might hit you for an instant as coffee).
I’ve seen some better references in the past, but here’s one that lists the dominant aroma compounds in coffee:
