I particularly dislike the idea of spending 20% on top of a wine that is already three or four times retail price.
Before you get your flame throwers out, I am in favor of paying waiters correctly, with a fixed salary.
The article debunks the claim that big tips mean better service.
When in the US, I play by the - unwritten - rules and tip, because “when in Rome…”, but the system is unfair, disuasive and, contrary to popular belief, does not encourage more better service.
I totally agree. When a 20% tip on a bottle of wine starts to get close to the retail price of said wine, something is wrong. The price of wine in restaurants is the main (but not only) reason I rarely buy wine in restaurants — it’s a total racket. Of course, this is old news, isn’t it?
It may be old news, but it is still terribly politically incorrect to say so in some quarters (kind of like the emperor’s new clothes…), where hesitating to cough up is seen as a horrific sign of tight-fistedness and lack of social consciousness!
Perhaps if enough people raised a big enough stink might things change?
I particularly like places that let you bring your own wine, and fully understand that there is a corkage charge.
In places that think I am a sitting duck, I often have beer instead. The criminal mark-up hurts a lot less…
Getting back to waiters, they certainly deserve a decent salary and, as the article points out, so does the cooking staff.
Do countries where you don’t tip have poorer service? I think not.
And instead of college kids, middle aged people are proud to wait on tables, and do so professionally.
So, above and beyond complaining, I would be fully in favor of either a fixed service charge divided among employees - not just the visible face in the dining room, but everyone - or no tip at all, other than something symbolic, certainly not 20% (!), as is the custom in France.
I confess when I dine the wine component is the large part of the bill and probably larger than most diners as that is my passion. Given that I normally choose the wine from the list myself without sommelier input I fail to see how any part of my tip (which is normally respectfully healthy) is associated with the wine purchase. The service aspect of pouring an expensive wine may involve more cost for the restaurant because of better glassware, decanting etc. but is completely absorbed by the list price of the wine.
The reality is if you tip well on the food component you are probably tipping more for the table than those who do not purchase expensive wines.
Now if you have been given the privilege of BYO it is another matter altogether,
I agree that more tip has nothing to do with better service.
The restaurateurs should pay their staff properly and ask for the price they need.
If the market gives it they will prosper, if not they will close.
It is a mindblowing experince when you order a bottle of Krug in a club in Miami, the low life waiter brings dirty glasses, asks if we need a ice bucket (of course) and he gets the obligatory 18% on the allready stiff price of the beverage. Allready on the bill.
I was so mad, I wanted to call the police. In order to continue my journey back and not to end up in Guantanamo I paid.
I never forgot, I never will forget that situation and I will never again order expensive wines in restaurants in USA. When I go to places, I visit friends.
In my opinion it is the responsibility of the owner of the place to take care of the fair compensation of the staff.
I am no judge, not in my real life and especially not at a place where I want to have fun with my friends, family the people I like.
This system is only there to produce guilt for the ones who spend the money. Sick!
Sorry if I sound like an asshole, but ordering a wine in a douchbag club that should be savored and respected…is well…kind of douchy and certainly deserves some sort of punishment…
This is how I view it, too. On the rare occasions I buy from a restaurant’s wine list, I mentally add 20% to the price on the list, and go from there with my buying decision.
You are right, Berry: this post does make you sound like an @sshole. You have no idea what the setting was, Berry (i.e.: which club; which night; which part of the club on that night; company; etc. … and don’t you think it’s presumptuous of you to assume that said wine was not savored and respected?) Who made you the Final Decider on what wine can be enjoyed at what times and at what locations? Sure, maybe the setting was exactly as you imagine it was, but that doesn’t really change the fact that Krug was on the menu and should be served properly (esp. given Miami prices). You say “deserves punishment” — don’t you think (what was most likely a ridiculous) markup is “punishment” enough? Perhaps my response to your post is harsh, but I feel it’s no more harsh than your response to Hans’s post. To be clear, I do not defend Hans’s use of the term “low life,” or his statement/reaction that he felt he should call the police.
I, too, wonder if it was legal for the 18% tip to be obligatory in this instance (was it a big party?; was the obligatory nature of the tip revealed in advance? was the tip actually obligatory, or did it merely appear to be?)
My tips at BYO for establishments where I repeatedly return is usually in the 25%+ range. Sometimes as much as 50%; depending on the service. It’s an important part of letting the establishment that I appreciate the privilage.
Doug & I routinely go to a restaurant when I’m visiting him. We always bring our own stems, wine, wine key, ect. So there’s no major cost to the restaurant…but given their service and our love of the place I will frequently find myself tipping in the 30-40% range given their fair costs and no corkage cost.
I love the idea of including the tip in the price. It should be part of the price anyway. I don’t tip the guy at Home Depot who helps me find a replacement stem for my faucet or the guy who owns the dry cleaner, so why should I have to tip in a restaurant?
It’s a stupid corrupt system that takes us back to feudal times - the tippers feel guilty and pressured and the recipients of the tips hate and resent their patrons. Ugh. It’s degrading to everyone - waiters play the role of the street urchins asking the passing nobleman for a farthing and the “nobleman” is often as not just another working stiff who’s out for a nice evening and has to play the role of someone he’s not comfortable being. It’s why until about 20 years ago, tips were always seen as un-American.
And it is not relevant that waiters and waitresses don’t make all that much money so they need tips. First, nobody forced them to go to acting school and take jobs in restaurants until their big breaks, and second, every other business includes labor costs - why not restaurants? Add the 18% or 20% or25% or whatever to the cost of each dish and be done with it. It’s far more honest.
They do, but the structure of the compensation system isn’t up to them. If you don’t tip generously, they don’t make a decent living. Taking the genuine outrage on them wouldn’t help (and I am not suggesting you do). But, where you BYOB, do you tip extra to account for the reduced bill? I usually figure into the tab the retail price of the wine I brought and tip 20% or so on that. If they offered the wine at a justifiable price, I would have purchased it from the restaurant, and the wait staff should pay the price for management’s failings.
In some instances yes, although I am not claiming a cause and effect relationship. In many places in Europe where service is included, you can wait forever for attention and play hell getting your check. So I don’t dismiss the relationship out of hand.
Markup in clubs are 10x. I don’t even think about ordering champagne in those places, because of the absurd pricing and because the bottle Vultures drink them so fast!
Having said that, I do love me some Miami clubs. Don’t mind if I do a little this weekend!
When did tipping on alcohol become the norm? To set the record straight I do tip on alcohol, but I seem to recall that at one point (before I was old enough to drink wine, IIRC) the norm was to tip on the meal but not on the alcohol.
![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
